Selveem:However, with all of this talk of "Is this really in the best interests of..." really necessary? Further, who specifically is being harmed?
It is only necessary if the players want to be involved in the process. If they don't, we can go back to having the imms discuss it all behind the scenes and pronounce our decisions without the input of those who play. The question of whether or not something is in the best interests of FK is the primary one we imms dicuss/debate. It is the single most important thing we do, and it is the driving force behind every decision from whether to allow an application or whether to ban a player. The person being harmed is the brand new player who does not know anyone outside the game or in it. The person who comes here because they heard good things, reads the room descriptions in the newbie temple, explores the areas one room at a time and meets people as they come into the life of the PC. This person struggles to have coin to repair armor and sword, has to explore to find the component shops that carry what is needed, has no idea where a particular road will lead and WANTS to experience the gradual maturation of a PCs development. This person is NOT playing on the same field as the one who is given a sword that does magical damage and needs no repair, whatever armor/clothing can be bought with the gracious amounts of platinum gifted to him/her, told of which shops sell the best minions, given items to equip those minions, and then pointed in the direction of quests that will be of the most benefit.
Unfortunately, questions such as the one you have proposed only deepen the 'Us (being Imms) versus Them (being general players)' seed that has been commonly felt by a multitude of players throughout my stay here. (I know because I have been friends with many who have left because of that 'feeling.')
As there are more and more comments such as these, perhaps we need to question whether our concept of bringing these discussions to you, the players, is a good idea. This may be grounds for yet another spin-off thread. If simply proposing the questions deepens the "Us vs Them" fiction, would it be better to not propose the question and revert to having imms discuss it among ourselves without this dialogue? As for your friends who quit, I can only respond in two ways:
1. Please note that this concept of sharing imm observations and thoughts with the players on the forums did not exist when those friends left, we did it all behind the scenes as an imm team. So you are creating a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for imms by saying it is wrong for us to post these thoughts, and that your friends left when we didn't post them.
2. "Us vs Them" is a myth. It always has been and it always will be. Imms have no desire to screw over players. We are motivated by "what makes the mud better for EVERYONE." And since everyone is an inclusive term, someone here or there will feel that his/her specific idea of how things should happen aren't happening and then take the illogical step to conclude that we imms must be against that person. We are stewards of the game.
Since I have been back, I must admit that much of that feeling seems to have been addressed and carefully avoided. This has very much impressed me because I felt that was a negative impact on Forgotten Kingdoms as a whole.
Thank you. I really mean that. We have spent a lot of time addressing this issue and working to dispel the myth. I do need to express my confusion between this statement and your previous one. Perhaps I am misreading something, they seem contradictory to me.
Oghma:the forums are here for constructive posts and constructive criticism. Sometimes you will see things posted that you do not neccesarily agree with but are still valid points of view based on observations.
Well said.
Kelemvor:My one goal as an Imm is to make the game enjoyable for players.
I can't state it any more simply or strongly. I really believe that everyone needs to accept that not all players play the same way, but that we still need some rules. Not every rule is going to make everyone happy because everyone has different styles. Still, the playing field needs to be as level as possible for everyone and it is part of our responsibility to you the player, for your enjoyment, that some folks don't get undue advantages over others.
Dalvyn: ...incite people to gather up, interact, and do things together. When does it become wrong then? ... UnIC gatherings because of OOC friendship ... constructing a "guild" around yourself by equipping other characters. Level 20-25 characters with equipment better than several "regular" level 40-50 characters, most of them "bestowed" upon them by friends. ..."WoW guild" behaviour: making other characters (or even players?) loyal to you or your group by equipping them.
I agree, it isn't wrong to gather up, interact and do things together. It is the other activities that are detrimental to the mud because they create an undue advantage for others. OOC friendships are fine. We like to play with the people with whom we are comfortable, it's normal. It becomes a problem only when someone(s) decides to play Santa Claus for the rest of the group. Taken to another extreme, if we as a community of imms AND players decided that this behavior is accceptable, what would be wrong with the following scenario?
Code: Select all
Kel16: Hey Lath, sup? Wanna oinvoke some cool stuff for my new wannabe Lathanderite? Maybe a glowing golden +2 sword and some neat armor to match? I'll send you an IC prayer, you give me the Faerdale quest and then pop down to give me an extra reward, cool?
Lath22: Sure man, and you'll hook up my new death priest with a FM soon right?
Kel16: No problem.
Admittedly, it's an
EXTREME example. But we have the ability to do that, just like some players have vast stores of eq and money to hand out. Yes, we imms have a responsibility not to abuse the system in such a way. Shouldn't players have the same responsibility?
Mariela:1) Faith Managers Make or Break a Faith
I agree with your point on this, but it doesn't really address the topic at hand. The issue is not that there is an influx in any given faith. If it were, we would consider the old policy of closing faiths to promote balance. The issue is the OBSERVED activity of giving away eq, coin, quest locations, etc. to those who are joining the faith. It could just as easily be a guild as a faith.
2) People play with their Friends
Agreed also. There is no issue here either. While we do encourage and want people to meet new friends and interact more globally in the FK community, it is not requried of anyone to do so. The issue is not so much WHO plays with whom, but how. And to some degree, why. If the "why" is because they are friends, there is no problem. If it is because someone is bribing them with unbalancing advantages others don't get, it is a problem.
3) Cliques happen. You can't control it. You cannot deny it.
Yes they do. I think the mere fact that Kelemvor started this post is evidence that we do not deny it. We cannot completely control it. Nor do we really have the desire to do so. It is a game and we don't want to tell people with whom they have to play. That is never our goal. However, we can at least make a good faith effort to not allow any one clique to make the game unfair for any other individual or clique.
As for the equimpent/coin. The first night I came out of the temple in Waterdeep, I ran into a guy, one of the older characters. Expressing I did not have any money, he just shelled out 50 platinum to me. I did not even know him!
That is excessive. Whatever happened to a pair of pants? Or enough coins to trade that plain sword in for a black-handled one? Or some food? Or an invitation to a reasonable adventure where you split the loot?
I will confess. I will talk to someone on IM and be like,
Me: "Whatcha doing?"
Them: "Fking, I'm bored."
Me: *looks on questlog then says* "I have a few thing sto work on, wanna help?"
Them: "Sure! be right there! Tell me!"
Nothing wrong with that. I will take this opportunity to tell you a sad consequence to OOC decisions though. One of my favorite things I recall from my first months on FK as a player were the times when poor WD would get infested with something (trolls, giants, rats, undead, etc.) and those in the city would band together, create small groups and go hunting. We'd usually get some appropriate reward from the city. Good mindless fun that created hours of chat-style rp later on. Now, I've tried to run the same thing several times since I've been an imm and eventually gave up. I'd wait for a bunch of lower level PCs to be around and start something only to have a good number of them quit and log in more powerful PCs. Or, more to the point, all of a sudden have an insurgence of people who were offline come running to WD. Those kinds of OOC arrangements are problematic in my opinion. I'll stop talking about this issuee though, in fact I probably did too much anyway, since such OOC communication topics are the thrust of many many other threads. My apologies, even I'm getting off point!
Why as a people do we constantly put down more and more restrictions and rules regarding RP and the process of playing on Fk? Why does it seem as time goes on, more and more of the sense of the Honor System keeps getting torn down because so and so saw this and that...
We are not endeavoring to put more restritctions on rp here, we are exploring, with player input, the process of playing and the possibility of adding restritctions there. Again, the rp surrounding the increase of any faith/guild/race is not an issue. Rp is good, we like rp. The issue is the OOC clique behavior of sharing information, eq and coin among members of a specific group for the undue benefit of those involved. Your latter question answers itself. It is precisely because these behaviors are being observed that the Honor system is, sadly in my opinion, eroding. The observation of the behavior is evidence of players not playing honorably.
[Continued]
I am offended at the mention of rewards to people who do this and that for the game, as if somehow if one plays here... it is not enough. I think it sets people up to feel that if they are not *kissing up* ( and yes I have heard it called this) they are not important. It just adds momentum to the cliques that have existed in this game for years. SO if you are going to say that the sudden influx in a faith is motived only by the urge to get ahead, you might go so far to say, so is the sudden influx of people who wish to build or work for the game ... and I think it is incredibly rude to those who are here to play and have fun and do what they can to make it a better community. 
