mounting in tunnels

[Eltsac]

I would like others point of view than mine.

My gnome is between 3 and 4 feet tall (well it's child size).
He is a master mounter, travelling everywhere and fighting with his faithful pony.

Sometimes I do not hesitate to enter tunnels if they seem tall enough for that (mounted or not).
Does it seems strange to you to have a gnome on a small pony in 6 feet height tunnels?

When I see my gnome on his pony I see :




Of course those are small ponies, but then it's a pony bought in Golden Oak, a pony for children sized creatures.

Following these picture, I'm not taller than a human on my pony, I'm not much larger than an orc.
So to me I would easy fit in those tunnels, even mounted.

And seeing how mules are often taken to drag carts in tunnels, having my long time faithful pony isn't so strange to me.

But then... am I wrong to think that?

El

[Nysan]

MH constantly has mules and carts in the tunnels. It is accepted daily life. I do not think certain mounts should be tunnel crawlers though. Griffons would not enjoy the experience for example or even some of the bigger horse breeds. Underground is a disturbing feeling to untrained animals... humans too, for that matter.

Now, being a master mounter in a tunnel. (Why does that sound wrong?) It would depend on the area really. Some cave systems, I picture humans ducking their heads to dodge rock formations, others no taller than a dwarf/gnome, and even others that are massive caverns. If you are talking underground areas in general, no. I'd rather not see mounting allowed in these areas. However, if a builder wishes to assign mounting to their own projects, which are clearly larger tunnels or whatever, sure that makes sense.

Not sure if there was an answer there, but enjoy!

[Raona]

Certainly there's a logic to small creatures riding medium mounts through even a moderately open tunnel or cave, provided the creature's mettle is up to it. That said, I agree with Nysan that some spaces should not have any quadrupeds negotiating them (say, a spiral staircase), and others should be game for any creature, they being so huge (a massive cavern around an underground lake, say).

Does the game currently prohibit all use of the mount command indoors or something?

[Brar]

It all depends on the area I think and my base for that is the creature you encounter in said area.

The underdark for example is mainly very large tunnel with the oddities of the squeezer part, I mean.. you meet carrion crawler and the bulettes in there so even the tallest horse would fit without the slighest problem, escpecially in mine complex where carts rolls by, if big carts are being rolled on, then surely a pony can fit without a problem.
Underground cities complex is another place I could imagine mounts fitting.
However there is some underground complex I can't imagine a four legs in there, but that goes true to centaurs and the likes too of course.

After that thought, the main problem is how you access to the underground place, is it a cave carved in the mountain side?
Is it a place you go with a ladder?
Is it via staircasse ? spiral or not?
I mean horse can easily go down a straight staircase, old medieval european cities have still marks of stairacases in the street made for horses. And even modern police horse in Europe are trained for that (and for not moving an inch when firing guns are involved).

As for mounts not loving to be inside..I don't really know where that ideas comes from, for mounts are been used underground since mining was invented many millenia ago. For some modern idea I would link to http://kycoal.homestead.com/MiningtheCoal.html as example of hand-made modern mines where mules and pack horses are used, and that's mine made by modern humans, without the mining backgroup of fantasy dwarves, the magic means of drows and the godly power of those who made the underdark.

Now... there is always an IC way to get a pony to go down there, I think it is the Harpell who reduce horses to the size of a plush to stable them more efficiently.
But that is integrant part of a roleplay and should be acteed accordingly.

I think that lke a lot of things in RP, it is a case by case basis depending on how it is rped out that gives credit or discredit to a situation.

Brar

PS: Just one last thing, just to remember. Mules are crossbreed between horse and donkeys, and are horse sized (Large in DnD) which means far larger than a pony (Medium in DnD).
So In size it is Horse/Centaur/Mule > Pony/Donkey/Wolf

[Eltsac]

Of course my gnome doesn't ride everywhere.
In the late case, it was in 6 feet height tunnels. It often happens that I have to let the pony outside simply because Icly it would not access the entrance of the area.
I try to check room descriptions (though I probably miss some in a whole area).
I agree to think it's case by case.

About horses not feeling good in tunnels... well of course untrained ones would not feel well (I think). But mounted horses and ponies are trained animals. Some of them often share battlefield with their master. Are tunnels more stressful than that?

Does the game currently prohibit all use of the mount command indoors or something?

Not at all

El

[Raona]

Does the game currently prohibit all use of the mount command indoors or something?

Not at all

Ah, OK!

I think that means it requires interpretation on a case-by-case basis, and people may come to differing conclusions, even when key aspects of the area (like the height or width of a tunnel) are spelled out, which is not often the case. I'll add these caveats, though:
1) Quadrupeds can't turn around, or walk backwards, as easily as a biped. If a tunnel isn't as wide as a quadruped is long, they should only be able to turn around in rooms at the end of the tunnel. That can be a BIG consideration, tactically, if there are hostiles in the area.
2) A rough floor may be negotiable by some creatures, but not most common horses. Stairs, perhaps, but loose rubble, boulders, etc. would all put a horse in true peril of being made lame. Even ponies and donkeys can't safely negotiate a damp, slippery floor. For a biped, falling often means little more than embarrassment, but for a quadruped it is often a death knell.
3) Quadrupeds certainly can't move as fast as bipeds in these environs. Speed walk at most, for sure.

[Gwain]

Specially bred pit ponies were used in the deepest mines because of the relative lack of space. Breeds like shetlands which were smallish and could manage deeper than even mules. Horses were used in the largest tunnels which were closest to the surface. Its safe to assume that the deeper you go, the smaller your mount should be. Big horses cannot adjust to space, a warhorse for example, would go insane from the confined space.

[Nysan]

As for mounts not loving to be inside..I don't really know where that ideas comes from, for mounts are been used underground since mining was invented many millenia ago. For some modern idea I would link to http://kycoal.homestead.com/MiningtheCoal.html as example of hand-made modern mines where mules and pack horses are used, and that's mine made by modern humans, without the mining backgroup of fantasy dwarves, the magic means of drows and the godly power of those who made the underdark.

I mentioned that some animals do not like underground because it is true. It is an unnatural or unfamiliar state for them and they dislike it. However! Animals can be trained/raised to do just about everything, including working underground or not reacting to nearby gunfire during a battle. What you mentioned, and my MH/dwarf comments earlier, are of animals born, breed, and trained for underground life. Vastly different than trying to drag a griffon into a tunnel for the first time.

Gnome or dwarf mounts/pets would be used to underground experiences, due to their training and how they were raised, maybe even some organizations like the Fellowship of the Mountain's pets might be trained for that life. Drow and Underdark races, not worth the comment really... they would be afraid of sunlight, not a cavern. On the other hand, I just don't see a random horse from Waterdeep/Westgate being trained or even having prior experience with underground so it would spook them.

[Selveem]

I think there's a bit too much stress on reality in fantasy games in general. I think maybe it's because people enjoy them so much they want to get lost into them as much as they can, thus making them more realistic might even trick their rational brain.

Aside from that, horses can and have gone underground. Horses can and do navigate stairways.

I think, really, it should be overlooked when any large creature enters such areas. Why? Because if a character (be it a MOB or player) can't fit, mprogs and the like would give warning (like a certain place in Daggerford).

Additionally, as we can't "look <direction>" and see the description of the next room, I think it'd be a bit unfair to blanket rule that certain sizes/races can't go certain places by penalty of chiding, tsking, or any form of punishment.

[Brar]

I think, really, it should be overlooked when any large creature enters such areas. Why? Because if a character (be it a MOB or player) can't fit, mprogs and the like would give warning (like a certain place in Daggerford).

Well, I don't agree with that, it is not because the code let you do so that you can ICly do so, it is impossible to code every physical limitation and players should be mature enough to think and be reasonable in their doing. If not then then I trust the staff fully to take appropriate actions considering each situation.
But it would be a lot less strain for them if we think before we act.
It was still a RP focused game last time I checked and for me that implies a minimum of consistency as opposer to some hack and slash like modern MMO... but perhaps I'm wrong on that one?

Brar

[Larethiel]

modern MMO...

And the biggest, most successful one of those starting with World even forces PCs to dismount/vanishes the mounts in indoor areas/caves/mines except for like one bigger exception

[Gwain]

Just my opinion on this:

You really should not bring a horse into a tunnel unless its specifically bred to go into tunnels and tight enclosed spaces. We have a few of those in the game, and they do get used. I admire the people that take the time to consider and work within the frame of roleplay and those that make these topics to look for clarity and expand perspective for the game. What I don't care for is people doing things just because the code does not cover it I've been there, its not right or justifiable without permissions. You should not squeeze a massive warhorse into the tunnels of Undermount or the Underdark, its not an underdark mount or creature. Its a horse. A pony, yes, a small horse, that's fine to me, they'll probably just get a bit addled. Its not part of a rigorous or dementedly obsessive rp to adhere to this. Its part of a dedicated rp environment.

Depending on what the rules request:

Pets & Mounts (Minions)
=======================
You can buy pets and mounts in the pet shops and stables around the realms. A
character can possess both a mount and pet at the same time: more generally,
a given PC can have up to two minions at any given time. These include pets,
mounts, and followers, and are listed on your SCORE sheet. You are
responsible for the actions of your pets. You can sell most pets back to the
pet shops. You can also dismiss a pet when you no longer have need of it.

Petsaving is automatic in the Kingdoms. When you purchase a pet, it is loyal
to you until its death. Your pet will automatically save when you save and
quit when you quit. Your pet does not have to be in the same room as you when
you quit, so it is safe to stable your pet for roleplay and quit away from
them. If you die, your pet may still live and vice-versa.
Pets remain loyal until they die. If you lose link your pet may be killed
without you around to protect it. In no instances will pets be reimbursed. Do
not even ask.

* Pets should be roleplayed properly as to the type of pet they are and their
race. If it is a horse, it should not talk, for instance. You should also not
take your pet into places it should not go, like taking a pet into a temple.
If your pet is a bear, do not take it into a city, and so on.

* Note that your opportunity to name a pet comes when you purchase it. Use
the command structure buy <pet> [pet's name]. For example, buy wolf Fang
would buy the wolf in the inventory of the merchant before you, and name it
"Fang."

* Each pet has a level minimum; if you attempt to obtain a pet before you
have reached the level required for it, you will be told that that pet "is
too powerful for you to handle."

And they do mention that there are places you should not take your pets if they are inappropriate. Just because the code is not enforced does not mean things are not expected. It seems difficult and takes effort, but it does feel good to hold yourself to a standard and look for solutions either icly or on the forums.