[FEAT] Energy Substitution <type>

[Alvirin]

In body and soul you devout yourself to a type of energy and from now all your spells which cause energy damage cause the kind of damage that you have chosen.

[Kelemvor]

I'm not familiar with this one, so can I just clarify the expected impact.

Are we talking spells or prayers or both?

Are we saying, for example, that a wizard or priest who devoted themselves to Auril might substitue cold for all energy spells

Presumably meaning that fireballs, flamestrikes, lightning bolts etc would then all do cold damage instead of fire or electrical ?

[Alvirin]

It affect both prayers and spells, but in the particular case of prayers it doesn't affect prayers like inflict wounds or harm since that kind of spells don't channel an elemental type of energy but negative energy.

Are we saying, for example, that a wizard or priest who devoted themselves to Auril might substitue cold for all energy spells

Presumably meaning that fireballs, flamestrikes, lightning bolts etc would then all do cold damage instead of fire or electrical ?

Right.

[Hviti]

I'm afraid I don't understand what purpose this feat would have (other than some sort of RP). For a priest it might make sense for him/her to have spells tuned to his/her god/goddess, but making all elemental spells deal one type of elemental damage removes flexibility. Having different types of elemental spells is specifically intended to allow a priest/wizard to counteract things which resist some elements with spells of another element.

[Selveem]

That's precisely why one would use it. It would most likely be a configuration option. It is for the purpose of overcoming resistances. I can't remember how it is in the source book, but I think normally it changes all subtypes and increases power of them? I think in FK it might be better as a config option.

[Nysan]

I have to wonder the necessity of such a feat in FK. What spells, skills, weapons, ect a character trains is part of their RP. Just because its listed in your character's lists, doesn't mean its RP-right for them to have it. I dislike the possibility of a feat that creates an RP loophole to allow a character to train every spell in the list because he/she can change it to 'fit their character'. Don't get me wrong, this is a great feat...I just don't like RP loopholes.

[Selveem]

I have to wonder the necessity of such a feat in FK. What spells, skills, weapons, ect a character trains is part of their RP. Just because its listed in your character's lists, doesn't mean its RP-right for them to have it. I dislike the possibility of a feat that creates an RP loophole to allow a character to train every spell in the list because he/she can change it to 'fit their character'. Don't get me wrong, this is a great feat...I just don't like RP loopholes.

I um... think you misunderstood? I'm not certain what you're talking about, but it would be like I choose the element of ice. I config the option on and burning hands would be more of frostburn touch attack instead of elemental fire.

[Nysan]

I have to wonder the necessity of such a feat in FK. What spells, skills, weapons, ect a character trains is part of their RP. Just because its listed in your character's lists, doesn't mean its RP-right for them to have it. I dislike the possibility of a feat that creates an RP loophole to allow a character to train every spell in the list because he/she can change it to 'fit their character'. Don't get me wrong, this is a great feat...I just don't like RP loopholes.

I um... think you misunderstood? I'm not certain what you're talking about, but it would be like I choose the element of ice. I config the option on and burning hands would be more of frostburn touch attack instead of elemental fire.

Instead of merely training spells that fit the character's RP, the player trains every spell and uses this feat to justify it. Understood completely, just don't agree with it. *shrug* But, thats just me.

[Balek]

I really fail to see how putting a feat like this in would constitute some kind of RP loophole. I understand your point that some characters shouldn't train some spells because it doesn't fit with who that character is. My priest of Lathander isn't going to train poison or learn to animate the dead because those spells don't line up with his faith and personality.

If I played a wizard who worshipped Auril, maybe I would only want to cast cold spells. If I took this feat and learned fireball, but only cast it as some kind of 'iceball', I wouldn't be ignoring the character's roleplay choices or using a loophole. On the contrary, I would be strictly maintaining my established roleplay by using only ice spells, potentially at my own detriment due to a diminished versatility.

If you see this differently, please elaborate on the perceived loophole.

[Selveem]

I think that people are getting a little overzealous here (on the forums) of what the definition of roleplay is.

If I play a wizard and I decide to learn whatever spells I want, that's my right as a player deeming that would be appropriate for my character to learn these spells.

Just because I worship Kelemvor doesn't mean I may not still seek out the understanding and wisdom of learning how to cast a spell of animate undead.

Also, just because you have a spell doesn't mean you _have_ to use it. It is my belief that the idea of this feat was to PROVOKE more roleplay options, not more 'roleplay loopholes.'

While I am certain that you are not meaning to belittle the idea with your belief that this may be somehow abused, I think that in some ways I might be offended if I had posted this idea with good intention only to be told that my idea is a roleplay loophole; a cop-out for people who don't care about roleplaying and just want to do what benefits their making a character more powerful. Further, I fail to understand _how_ this makes a caster more powerful. As it stands, any caster can learn whatever spell they want based on their class/domain/school of magic/etc. They are limited, however, in their casting ability before they require a form of rest or passage of time.

I think this is a great idea and I don't see any reason it wouldn't make a great feat to be gained.

[Kregor]

Just because I worship Kelemvor doesn't mean I may not still seek out the understanding and wisdom of learning how to cast a spell of animate undead.

Actually, it IS strictly forbidden for Kelemvorites to practice in animating the dead, a violation of his ethos and dogma. That not denying your right as a player to choose your RP, it's the Deity's right as a player to determine whether a practice is inappropriate for His or her faith.

We all have a balance to meet where our RP meets someone else's. And your right to RP in a certain manner could always end up with consequence in the form of the deity's RP.

[Selveem]

Just because I worship Kelemvor doesn't mean I may not still seek out the understanding and wisdom of learning how to cast a spell of animate undead.

Actually, it IS strictly forbidden for Kelemvorites to practice in animating the dead, a violation of his ethos and dogma. That not denying your right as a player to choose your RP, it's the Deity's right as a player to determine whether a practice is inappropriate for His or her faith.

We all have a balance to meet where our RP meets someone else's. And your right to RP in a certain manner could always end up with consequence in the form of the deity's RP.

Please re-read what I wrote and do not contort and misconstrue it..
I said learn it. You do not _need_ to _do_ it to learn all the components (verbal, somatic, physical, etc..) and understand what is required in order to cast a spell you have learned.

[Nysan]

I offered my opinion on the suggested feat. There was no offense intended, merely my thoughts on it. I don't think I came off poorly and even stated it was just my thoughts. I'm sorry if my point of view doesn't sound right to folks, but that is the nature of opinions...they don't match often. *shrug* Anyone posting suggestions or ideas should expect someone disagreeing with their ideas now and then. Thats sort of the point of discussions, isn't it?

I will remove myself from further posting in this thread because I seem to be 'offensive' to some though, I do not wish to start any flaming threads.

[Glim]

Just because I worship Kelemvor doesn't mean I may not still seek out the understanding and wisdom of learning how to cast a spell of animate undead.

Actually, it IS strictly forbidden for Kelemvorites to practice in animating the dead, a violation of his ethos and dogma. That not denying your right as a player to choose your RP, it's the Deity's right as a player to determine whether a practice is inappropriate for His or her faith.

We all have a balance to meet where our RP meets someone else's. And your right to RP in a certain manner could always end up with consequence in the form of the deity's RP.

Please re-read what I wrote and do not contort and misconstrue it..
I said learn it. You do not _need_ to _do_ it to learn all the components (verbal, somatic, physical, etc..) and understand what is required in order to cast a spell you have learned.

I would agree with this, though I don't think he was trying to misconstrue your post. Probably the best way to figure out how to defeat undead would be to have a good understanding of them and how they are created. Doesn't mean you have to actually practice in creating undead. Just understand the spell and processes and rituals needed to create the undead so that you can learn it's weaknesses intimately.

In fact, there are necromancers devoted to Kelemvor who specialize in destroying the undead.

An analogy would be it is sorta like a locksmith... if you wanted to learn the best way to pick a lock, you should first learn how a lock is made.

As for the original idea of the post, I would tend to think this feat would require a high level requirement first, as it is very similar to the ability given to the archmage prestige class, and since you must be 12 level (lvl 30 translated to FK) to become an archmage, I would think you would need to be at least this level to take this feat.

Mastery of Elements
The archmage can alter an arcane spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell’s casting time is unaffected. The caster decides whether to alter the spell’s energy type and chooses the new energy type when he begins casting. This ability costs one 8th-level spell slot.

I see no balance issues really with this feat. It merely means you have attained such mastery of the elements and your spellworking that you can change the elemental damage of individual spells.

Also, because I enjoy metamagic feats and I think they work really well with FK. Perhaps this could be a metamagic feat? Something like 3 levels above?

[Kelemvor]

A general note here, which applies to all posts and which all posters should bear in mind when contributing to a thread.

All players are entitled to their opinion if it is expressed without malice, even if it differs from your own and the majority of other players. An opposing opinion is not something to be argued down or belittled, even if that is unintentional.

When responding to posts, please ensure you have read and understood the preceding posts. If you are unclear on any points, ask for an expanded answer before responding in full.

Do not post your opinion solely to detract from or nay-say the previous post. Particularly if you have not completely understood that post.
Posting is not a competitive undertaking, it is not about winning the argument.

Please take time to point out any misunderstanding before assuming ill-intent. More crucially; try not to assume, and certainly do not post to the effect, that someone has mis-quoted or otherwise distorted the meaning of your post.

Along similar lines please do not use the notion of 'being offended on behalf of the poster' to add weight or venom to your arguments. If the poster is offended or otherwise disappointed I am sure they will post for themselves.

Above all, please bear in mind that the written word is not always the best medium for conveying intent or meaning. Re-read your own post a few times or ask someone else to proof it for you if you are at all unsure how your response will be received.

Finally, just a general plea (and this is for my Imm colleagues too ).

Try not to create lengthy, wordy, (nerdy:)) posts that not all players will comfortably understand. English is not the first language of all of our players and age, education, culture etc can all be a barrier to understanding and being able to contribute.

[Alvirin]

Mastery of Elements
The archmage can alter an arcane spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell�s casting time is unaffected. The caster decides whether to alter the spell�s energy type and chooses the new energy type when he begins casting. This ability costs one 8th-level spell slot.

Also, because I enjoy metamagic feats and I think they work really well with FK. Perhaps this could be a metamagic feat? Something like 3 levels above?
[/quote]

Archmages work differently from people with this feat, an archmage can decide which energy will be based his spell when casting it, people with this feat must beforehand memorize the original spell tweaked to do the kind of damage chosen, losing its versatility.

[Glim]

Yes, I understand that. I did not mean to say that they were the same thing, only that they were quite similar.

It was me saying I like the idea

(<---the nerdy bit from Kelemvor was for me, I know it)

[Lathander]

I defintitely don't think it should be a toggle. I am against the idea of a spellcaster being able to switch from fireball to iceball whenever they memorise the spell. I think, IF IF IF, it were to be implemented that it should be something chosen when the spell is initially learned. You'd learn fireball or iceball and that's it, NOT both.

I would not be in favor of this being considered seriously until after resistances are updated.

[Dalvyn]

There would be a price to versatility : A "versatile" fireball (i.e., a potential ice/fire/sonic/acid/lightning-ball) would use a 4th level slot, while a normal fireball would use a 3rd level slot.

Now, in table top, you indeed have to choose the energy type at memorization. That is, when you use a 4th level slot to memorize your fireball, you have to choose whether you want it to be an iceball, lightningball, sonicball, acidball, or (but that would be a bit stupid) fireball.

In the current metamagic system of FK though, there is no relation between the feat(s) used at memorization and the feat(s) used at casting. If you have two feats with a +1 level adjustment for example, you can use one of those feats to prepare your fireball as a 4th level spell, but then decide to actually cast it modified by the other feat. The only information that is retained between the memorization time and the casting time is the level of the slot in which the spell is cast.

There are several ways to balance this though:

- Give "energy substitution" a +2 level adjustment. Once you learn the "energy substitution" feat, you get access to five new (incompatible) combat modes : substitution-fire, substitution-acid, substitution-lightning, substitution-cold, substitution-sonic. You activate one of them then memorize the spell (which goes into a slot 2 levels higher than normal). Then, at casting time, you pick the energy type you want.

- Offer 5 different feats, "energy substitution/cold", "energy substitution/fire", "energy substitution/acid", "energy substitution/sonic", and "energy substitution/lightning", each of them giving you access to a new combatmode (as above). At memorization, activate one of those combat modes and memorize the spell in a slot one level above normal. Do the same at casting time.

[Selveem]

I think both would be nice to have, to be honest. The second one could be upon becoming an Archmage or something. I don't know if we even have those events anymore.