Two handers

[Penryn]

Greetings,

I noticed something.... With weapon skills... and chosen wielding weapons.

Shield and Sword you gain Bash and an extra block with your shield

Dual weapons you gain An extra Attack and perhaps better parry chance (if have improved dual here even more extra attacks)

but

Two handed style really gets nothing. The weapon speeds are slow (if using that), the damage isnt much different really.

I would like to propose adding perhaps a Two-handed style feat, or skill to assist in this to make it more balanced...

Perhaps A "Cleave" skill where you knock them back from the force of the blow like a Bash. Or else A Pommel Strike that would jar them if it lands.

Perhaps something like a simple 2nd edition 2-handed style bonus to initative bonus and damage bonus..

I just thought it was an interesting topic and idea. Please get back to me upon it if possible..

Jeffery

PS not sure if topic was brought up before, if so please excuse my ignorance

[Cyric]

Two handed weapons score 1.5 times more damage than one handed weapons. Even if you were able to hold a one handed weapon, such as a longsword, in both hands, the code gives you an extra .5 damage to your regular score.

[Belose]

Two handed weapons score 1.5 times more damage than one handed weapons. Even if you were able to hold a one handed weapon, such as a longsword, in both hands, the code gives you an extra .5 damage to your regular score.

Does that work for the small folk? Weapons that tall folk have that are one-handed are two-handed for them, would THEY get that 1.5 damage for having to hold it in both hands or is that just coded for weapons that are two-handed in the description when you examine them....?

[Cyric]

From what I gather from the coders, yes. Anything that one would hold in both hands is 1.5 damage.

[Stayne]

Far be it from me to question the words of the only true diety

What your essentially saying is that, if all your attacks fired, once you have three attacks or more (main attacks) a two-handed weapon does more damage than a one-handed, which is its advantage. Since priests only get three attacks, and it takesw a long time to train up to having all attack to GM, there is much more an advantage having a shield. For fighters it means a newbie is better of dualing or with a shield anyways, and once you start down that path, why change? Most good shields have a special on them. Some help reduce armour class. Not only do you get a block but you get a better AC. There are heaps others with some very nice enchantments out there. As well as that, if you GM dual, you get two long weapons and since there are alot of powerful long weapons out their, that extra attack with a special, or even a bonus from wield the weapon, far outways and sometimes outdamages a two-hander.
But all this is beside the point....

I think what Penryn was really asking is - where is the incentive to wield a two handed weapon. There is nothing that makes a charecter who does so, unique. Perhaps a feat to add some uniqueness to this skill might make us see more spearmen, halberd wielders, or warrios who just love swinging a big $%^& sword around

Personally though, I would like a mssive two-handed spiked mace to smite my enemies, as well as Priests of the faith who think they are....er...stronger
But since I gain more out of my shield what incentive have I too switch??

On a side note, does this mean a staves for wizards also do 1.5 damage?

-Stayne

[Mikhail]

Ideally, the incentive to use this or that type of weapon or shield should be a matter of your character's roleplay and not based on some +/- to equipment, whether stat, AC, or hit/dam.

While there will always be those who opt for the best equipment over roleplay, all need not fall into this trap. Instead we can combine character roleplay with available equipment and weapons in the game - much as we would do were if we were real life adventurers and could not find the Headband of Einstein, Conan's Woowee Blade, or the Shield of the Grinch (gives the strength of ten Grinches plus two).

Note: I am not implying that it is not IC for some to look for the best of the best of the best or to emphasize one aspect over another, rather I am saying examine your character to determine what equipment and weapons to use based on what matters most to him or her.

[Andreas]

I agree with Mikhail - there shouldn't need to be a +/- incentive to using equipment. I tend to keep the EQ on my characters in line with their roleplay. Stat bonuses or magic effects have always seemed... well... secondary... to me in terms of roleplay and character development. Sure, you might have all the nifty neato equipment, but what is your character's favourite colour? Favourite food? Hobbies? Hopes? Dreams? Fears? Strip away all the equipment, and what do you have left?

[Belose]

Strip away all the equipment, and what do you have left?

I say you have people running around nekkid and worshippers of Sune haveing a field day.. I wish it would mean everyone would give up having to kill because they don't have weapons and armour, yet they always have feet, hands, teeth, rocks, branches.. <sighs dramatically> You know, I kind of wonder how everyone would handle it if they DID lose all their equipment and clothing for one day....

[Stayne]

Mikhail, Andreas - can't argue with you there. But if we do all things for just Roleplay, then why do we have skills at all?

This post was about the skills attached to our Roleplay and was answered with numbers. The question still remains.

If there are three main types of weapon styles - Two-handed, weapon and shield, dual wield - then why do the last two have skills and feats attached to them, and the first, does not?

I used numbers to illustrate why many do not choose the style that one of my charecters RP's. Would it be thus damaging to RP, or game balance to offer a feat to those who choose to RP this style, especially if it would encourage more to do so?

-Stayne

[Andreas]

A 1.5 damage multiplyer seems incentive enough to me. Think of it this way, you're dealing out half again as much damage as most others.

Calculating maximum damages without modifiers:
Long & short sword dual wielded = (S/M) 14 (L) 20
Two-Handed sword = (S/M) 15 (L) 27

Frankly, I'd rather be dishing out mass damage with the two-handed sword. Throw in strength bonuses and other modifiers and that claymore swinging warrior is quite the terror!

[Mingus]

Well, think of the average two-handed sword, like the one in the Conan movies. They came about with the advent of heavier armor. Not so much to slash at the enemy as would a long or broad sword would but more to pierce through the metal plate or at the joints. They are generaly heavy broad and thick blades and not suited to slashing and cutting like the thinner blades of long swords or sabres.(ect) How they are wielded also sets them apart from their lesser cousins. The attacks are more like the hacks and chops of an axe and the piercing action of a shortsword or spear.

So instead of the general 1.5 multipliers, how about gain with accourdance to the opponants armor. So with a target wearing hide or less armor both the long and two-handed sword dish out the same damage. But after hide armor the long sword(and its equivalents) start to do less damage and the two-handed start to do more. So when confronting full plate claded opponents, it would be much wiser to wield a two-handed vs dual-wielding long swords.

All mobs wear some sort of armor, even though they may not be wearing as real equipment they still have armor on. So this could be based on that.

On a side note... Since target and buckler shields and strapped to the forarm and do not need to be held, can it be made so you can wear them with two-handed weapons? And make it possible to still bash. With less probability for balance but give those with two-handed weapons that choice too.

[Penryn]

Guys, I wasnt asking from a numbers point at all. Anyone that knows my characters knows that is the last thing they look upon and are interested within.

I just merely was curious cause of the different skills and their favoritism towards the different styles of two handed style or within shield and weapon with bashing. I did not know of what was already within place which satified my curiousity.

I do think that really should be some sort of skill for two handed style wielders still but game balance is most important. If there is balance then nothing to worry over them.

Sincerely,
Jeffery

[Exer]

One of the great advantages of a two-handed sword is its length.
Up to 52" for a Great Sword.

Perhaps then, the skill would make the attacker un-able to reach and hit?
For coding, give it the same as a shield block would do.

Just a though

[Llanthyr]

I -think- now the game is going more towards the 3rd ed direction, and the maximum cap for stat points have been removed (correct me if I'm wrong), or perhaps you can train more of a single stat. So now, fighters who wish to use two handed weapons (like many I've seen on NWN) can really focus on their strength instead of dexterity, so they can dish out the extra oomph with their strength bonus and use wonderful armour to replace their sorely missed dexterity bonus.