Money... is it a rich man's world?

[Shabanna]

First...I want to know who has 2000 plat??? so I can go rob them or... something *cough* lol Geebs...I have a level 50... my "wealthiest" who has never had more than 200 plat in her bank account...and that is at her richest...and a level 35 fighter that has 8-10 plat... not even enough to buy some of that shiny pretty armour everyone says all of us fighters have lol and my elf... still has the coin given to her at the wedding 2 years ago IRL... cause... she lives off water and twigs

However... I personally know and RP with some level 50 players who USED to be rich are now getting poor at an alarming rate. >.<

Might I suggest a poll? Why dont we*really* find out how many characters are broke? put up a poll maybe it would give us a better idea of how much coin people are sitting on ;)Maybe even 2 polls one for how much coin your richest char has and one for how little your poorest char has. I think it would be and interesting and very telling bit of info.

Never, have I had a char that was filthy rich... never... though there are people who percieve that Banna is rich... and have even said it ICLY to me they are quite wrong. she has been dead broke more than once. Justt cause a char "plays" a certain level of financial status.. does not make them rich

"The Banna"

[Eltsac]

Well, for exemple, Eltsac was rich (going down fast :p), but then he became rich selling away to other players quest items / magical items because he needed money.

Now lots of my characters are poor, and as i don't like farming, i would only gather a minimum if i need money to train / food / components, that's it.

Heleyn is one of them as she does not like to fight and spend all her time in WD.
At the start, she has had hard time gathering a few copper to eat, but then, she is not what can be called an adventurer, so she might be a special case :p Her way to earn money is painting (even more for other PC), but now if she don't make a painting from time to time, she does not get fighting loot.
In her case, the Deliveries is a huge thing, and all new non fighting quests would be welcome.
But even more, being able to live from a trade would be great.
And it could be fun to have other non fighting trades, i mean not make weapons and armors, but rather rp items, would be fun.

Eltsac

[Gwain]

We could do a few things things:

1) establish a monthly contest or lottery for all players who wish to participate and have ten winners given 100 platinum for that month or the economy could be adjusted by checking the level of the player, the quality of the item being sold. So that young adventurers make more money.

2) we could have a weekly contest to add more quests to the Express delivery guild with prizes for all who submit and a grand prize for the winning quests judged by a panel

3) We could establish a job agency in all cities with various jobs for citizens to do like shear sheep, wax candles, test dangerous food additives and repelents or fill travel books.

4) An evil express delivery guild could be found or a welfare society that provides an amount of coin to poor adventurers once in awhile based on their need.

5) In crease the chances to win in gambling and horse racing dens

Of course, some of these ideas might be ridiculous...and on another note does anyone notice that the name of this discussion thread is also an Abba song? I love that. Money is not everything, give or take and do your best. There is always hope.

[Brar]

Well, I used to have one of those highly rich character from the period when the money system changed and when the plain visor where selling for 100 gold. On the other hand, I have some characters who were so broke they could not even sustained themselve because they would not icly go on adventure.

Now, my rich chars are getting drained while my broke chars can easily make enough coins to live (eat, drink and sleep in at an inn).
But this is all in Waterdeep.
Something like mini express deliveries would be nice in all the starting cities, some kind of things related to sewers like in WD (don't want to shred to much IC info).
Perhaps some places for all levels where you can earn money according to level without having to fight could be nice, but I don't have any ideas right now.

Another big problem I see is that, warrior level 20 or warrior level 50 needs the same money for armor/weapon. Another huge differences between melee/casters.
Now, if it tick healing would be simply removed, making cleric/potions/protections spells a lot more valuable then it would change things a bit as the needed consumable between level 20 and 50 would not be the same.

About trades, in DnD I remember you could use your profession skills to make a living if you had free times. So perhaps having the possibilities to use a trade without making anything but instead earning a few copper/silver/gold in some place, npc shops that could hire you for example would be a good idea.

[Isolrem]

A few ways to look at things in perspective.
1. Although some prices in the game suggest otherwise because they are balanced for game reasons, a platinum is probably all that is made by the average farming family in a year. A piece of bread, even sold at taverns, should not cost two coppers, but more like ten for a copper. This would be vastly overpriced for peasants to buy with regularity. A noble's inheritance would be very impressive if it contained a thousand gold - and already this shows a great gap between the classes. I notice 200 platinums is not an unusual wealth among adventurers.
2. So how rich should adventurers be in this world? Since many in the game prefers to make themselves as charitable, generous and do not conduct constant RP to earn money such as hiring themselves out, their main source of income would be from exploring. Explorers and such are generally placed at upper-middle class at best. Equipment in game may be hard to come by and harder to maintain with a low income, however,
3. Players rarely dedicate any significant amount of their time dedicated to strictly making money, which is realistically what one would have to do to live wealthily. Oftentimes poverty is a direct result of your character's roleplaying style and who you crafted him to be. Even so, any of you with more than 10 platinums in your pocket places you on the top teir of any society you enter.

These things are not very practical, because after players are competing and interacting only with other players. Just hoping people would be more at ease knowing they are quite well off, after all

[Eltsac]

When i see the price asked for some things or for training (like 5 plat a lesson) by shop keepers, i think they are quite rich too

Eltsac

[Isolrem]

I personally think that lessons on mundane things, such as digging, and on the basic use of common weapons and speaking of common languages, should cost only a few silvers.

But to use, training cost below one gold is a disgrace, a disgrace!

[Dalvyn]

What about offline jobs?

E.g., if you quit in a warehouse on the dock, you are supposed to be OOCly working there during your offline time. When you log back in, you smell fish and get a few coins for your job (depending on how long you were offline, with a maximum value).

E.g., if you quit in a smithy (and have any skill at smelting or weaponsmithing or armoursmithing), you are supposed to work your trade during your offline time. When you log back in, you get a few coins for your job.

E.g., if you quit in a temple of Oghma, you are supposed to work copying books and (if you know scribe) magical scrolls. When you log back in, you get a few coins and perhaps the odd scroll.

E.g., if you quit in an alchemist's shop and have knowledge-nature or know brew or ...

and so on

Of course, that would require hard code support.

[Isolrem]

Problem is, if this is automatically available, it will be hard to stress the roleplaying implications of this. e.g. you are about to quit for the next few days, there are nothing nearby except a stable, and since you are poor you just can't resist grooming the horses for the next few game months. Sure, your character would never do that IC, but you really need those five platinums, and no one would ever know...

Of course, if, while you are working there you leave an imprint, added to the room's description, then people may care more about if their work behaviour is appropriate:

A Shabby Stable
Exits : North
A few malnourished horses barely move around in their stalls in this run-down stable, the hay stinks of dung and the water in the barrels are murkier than milk.
Isolrem is grooming the horses here.

Someone says to you, "By the way, I saw you working at the nasty stables over on Povert Street these last few weeks.
You say, "..."

[Kirkus]

Dalvyns idea really struck a chord in my brain. I really like this idea. Also if there was ever going to be offline skill learning this is how it should be. Nothing like just quitting in the middle of the forest and comming back the next day to have earned a new level in swimming or something crazy like that. This actually adds to your rp while you are away. It makes sense.

I don't see any problems with rp like Isolrem brought up. If someone wants to do something out of character for them then let them pay the consequences. Honestly if you ever catch Kirkus working in an Oghman Temple I would expect some raised eyebrows and at least someone to punch him in the face!

This idea rocks! I say lest do this.

[Isolrem]

*cough* you might want to reread that post, Kirkus.

anyways, trouble with leaving imprint in room description is of course that a player leaves forever (for a few years can be pretty annoying, too) and his name becomes a permanent fixture of area descriptions.

[Dugald]

I think the problem with IC jobs would be that the nature of DnD is that all PC's are adventurers. That is their job. Granted, it's more like being a first class movie actor than normal jobs...maybe working only a couple times during the year, and then driving on the wrong side of the road, loaded, when not adventurering - making everybody with a real job dislike you a little.

I do very much like Kirkus' idea of skill advancement this way - effectively giving someone coin. If Dalvyn's idea goes through, I'd suggest making the jobs adventurer themed (selling exotic wares, entertaining, magic shows, bounty hunting, fortune telling).

Not like there is a rule against being a blacksmith or something, just that typically an adventurers quick cash trade isn't a serious nose to the grind stone 9 to 5.

I like the idea.

[Rhytania]

Most adventurers in dnd dont consider themselves adventurers and maintain jobs on the side. Look at the novels. Most of them just get caught up in the events.

[Dugald]

The novels aren't canon. PC's are adventurers. The difference being that DnD is a game of fantasy adventure...and the novels using the setting to tell stories.

It doesn't mean that you /can't/ play something else. It just means that the game was created with the expectation that you are going to play someone who has a desire to travel and adventure.

[Rhytania]

Novels arent canon? They propel the 'cannon' campaign forward, filling it with plot hooks, and storylines. Maybe I should rephrase. There is nothing wrong with having a job. And not all PCs are adventurers ALL of the time. They have to had done something to survive in the meantime when you are not controlling them. Unless your DM forces you to rp every second of every day of your characters lives, more oft than not theyd be doing something on the side.

[Kelsandra]

Nothing in the game states that you have to be an adventurer and your primary concern is adventuring. That very statement takes away all the freedom the game offers.

[Dugald]

There aren't rules for gaining experience through share cropping - there are rules for gaining experience by thumping goblins on the head and saving maidens. I'm not trying to say anyone should be forced to play an adventurer in this mudd - i'm just saying the genre expects it of you...and perhaps, that the "professions" should represent that.

[Brar]

Actually in DnD, there is a whole set of skills that just serve for only making a living when not on adventure, they are called Proffesion, those are existing skill in DnD...

[Rhytania]

There are rules for whats called or considered to be '0' Level Characters. Not all XP comes from thumping goblins. You can play a sharecropper or a baker or a bartender in dnd. Think about it, the world exists and goes on with or without the PC's. PC has no job therefore no money and therefore no food. You cant "adventure" 24/7. unless youre use to those table top games where everyone "magically" appears at the mouth of the dungeon or miraculously happens to be at the same tavern at the same time listening to the same bard tell the same tale of the dragons treasure or whatnot. DnD does go into the depth and makes for good gameplay when the world does not revolve around the players. My motto when playing is the only difference between an NPC and a PC is a charactersheet.

Edit:
And Professions too, forgot to mention those.

[Dugald]

I understand there is a profession skill. I also understand that there is a perform skill - the nature of this skill seems more appropriate to me.

I don't think it's a big deal, I just wanted to get the point across, that adventurers make /way/ more coin in one trip than what the trade workers make. I can't forsee too many instances where an adventurer would come back from wherever, and then decide he'd like to work under a guy who makes less in a year than he does in an adventure - and work his tuckus off at the grindstone (ok, dwarves would love that ).

I'm just suggesting, from a roleplaying standpoint, that something involving less work and more fun ( I understand it wouldn't be played out, but that doesn't mean my character does it any less ) be an alternative. The important thing is to look at it from a character point of view - I know none of mine would choose to go work under some gnomish cobbler for a silver a day when he could collect debt/perform in taverns/conduct magic shows/trap for pelts/pickpocket a drunk/orate prose while panhandling.

Again, not a big deal, just keep in mind that your character has a skillset that has loads of ways to make coin in a "time jump" like it would be with logged off pay. You really want to have them working for some NPC class character ?