Hiding

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:52 pm

I would like to see if and what others would think of adding a 'Hiding' tag on the affects when hiding. So those who are hiding know when they are hiding. Or with a spell like Farie Fog or Invisibility Purge.

Or for those who forget they are hiding... or get visible when a hide check fails when walking/sneaking

*edit* just fixed the spelling mistake of 'hidding' to 'hiding' cos I am a spelling nazi

- Sune

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:59 pm

You mean like a notifacation tag on the affects menu? That would be nice, but is it possible because hiding can be done indefinitely as long as you have the available stamina, so maybe a hiding notifacation under affects without the period remaining note. If that is possible?

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:10 pm

exactly... cause as it is not... only spells and prayers and what nots show as affects.... but wouldn't hidding be an affect as well?

Or... have an ifnanet

Lorion · Post by **Lorion** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:27 pm

I am not sure and too lazy to look it up, but i think Dalvyn or someone else once said (while talking about speed: sneak i think) that this is done deliberately so you cannot detect if you hid successfully or not.

Maybe i'm totally wrong though.

Brar · Post by **Brar** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:41 pm

you can never know if you're succesfully hiding or not, same for sneaking. Your character could think he is well hidden but he can be wrong in his thinking.

Brar

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:47 pm

Try to think of it as real life. The only for sure way to tell if someone can see you is a third person point of view. Meaning you cant leave your body to see if any parts are exposed from the hiding area.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:47 am

But you would know if you are trying to hide. You obviously wouldn't know how well you are doing but that you are attempting.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:52 am

And you know if your attempting because you have it config that you do or you are typing it. Now perhaps an echo that reflects the check when someone enters the room. Like if a player/npc enters and they dont see you an echo is sent: Someone enters and doesnt seem to notice you. and if the check is failed. Someone enters the room and notices you.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:04 am

Well, I agree with Kirkus.

Just because you dont know if you are well hidden, you still would know if you are TRYING to hide. In the mud, you dont necessarily smote out your actions when hiding. Sometimes, yes, but as a general thing most people dont, because it would show up to anyone around (and some people wouldnt not use that to know you are there) So that is hidden from you because you arent actually smoting it. So I believe it should be there merely to let you know if your character is trying to hide or not.

Hope that makes sense and doesnt sound too argumentative.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:29 am

Hide echoes when you use the command and tells you if you are successful in hiding or not. 'Well hidden' is the response I believe.

Beyond that, it is as noted previously - the only way to know if your hiding has been discovered is if a third party looks at you.

With hidden characters now only discernible passively by someone using prayers or spells or by active action such as faerie fog or invisibility purge I think a little balancing is in order. Not being able to 100% say that you are successfully hidden is fair in my opinion.

Much may change if 3rd edition listen spot hide and move silently skills are introduced and the results for hiding will be much more varied depending on you and the looker.

For now, think of using hide as trying to be stealthy and not quite knowing who might have the better view.

Oh - and for those who like to hammer out 'hide' when they've been spotted (or think they've been spotted) there is no 'hide in plain sight' feat on Forgotten Kingdoms. Roleplay accordingly.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:29 pm

Well, if you type hide, then you walk a couple of rooms, shouldnt you have a way to tell if your character is at least still trying to hide? Just because one person spots them, doesnt mean they are suddenly now standing in the middle of the road, they would still be trying to hide as best they can until they type vis.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:59 pm

When you think about it hide isnt the only thing that acts this way. Suppose your character can make amrour weapons and jewelry. If you type the command and follow it by acouple of 'who', 'score', or 'look' commands you dont know if you are still doing the "constructing". But in the end I think you should just go with it. If you think you are hiding and find out you arent, roll with it. Just RP it out.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:05 pm

In speaking of hiding...

I have a sort of IC ettiquite question.

If you noticed the echo for "Someone" has come into a location you have, does that mean it's your right to acknowledge or ignore their presence? It doesn't say their name, so apparently they are hiding, but does your character realize that there is someone hiden with that echo?

Just curious what most people think.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:16 pm

I always thought that if they were sucessful then you wouldnt see that echo at all. I determine it was you feel a breeze caused by their entrance or hear them make some sort of noise while moving if you see someone, since neither of those determines to you what made the noise hence "someone."

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:28 am

Just because they're hidden doesn't mean they're successfully being stealthy, if you see that echo I'd say it's perfectly fine to RP them being there, because they're making enough noise for your character to figure that someone is out there.

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:14 am

Im going to venture a guess that echos dealing with logging in and out should be ignored. Ie.. Somone Disconnects and reloggs in a moment later. It will echo, Somone has logged in. I believe that should be ignored for reasons outside player control.

Tortus · Post by **Tortus** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:44 am

In my opinion, Mariela, these things depend on the situation.
You've got to judge for yourself a bit.

For instance, someone sneaks into the MS in Waterdeep and fails his move silently check. Maybe ICly he stumbled or kicked up some gravel and thus didn't move very silently any more.
Now you would have to take into consideration that the market is, during the daytime, an extremely crowded area, but the code doesn't take that into account.
This is something that you'd have to do in this situation, and arguably in every other situation as well.

I'd say this goes for some echoes and smotes as well.
In the past, I've briefly ventured into the realm of smoting while hidden.
It turns out, it simply doesn't work. Smote glancing around the room, and someone's bound to whip out a spellbook or start calling out for you to show yourself.

Weeell, I think this is enough of sleepy morning ranting. Hope my point came across.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:17 pm

I'd say this goes for some echoes and smotes as well.
In the past, I've briefly ventured into the realm of smoting while hidden.
It turns out, it simply doesn't work. Smote glancing around the room, and someone's bound to whip out a spellbook or start calling out for you to show yourself.

That was kinda the point of my asking. I have seen it handled where people ignore the people hidden..

But at the same time, if you are smoting from the "shadows" doesnt' that imply that you want to be heard? You are not talking to yourself or why would you have to smirk and giggle outloud. It also implies that you are probably closer to someone than just across the square, hidden and watching.

I dunno. I think sometimes the Hiders are just as bad as the finders sometimes at ettiqute in this circumstance. If you are hidden, BE HIDDEN. If you talk or smote, it should pop you out of being hidden or you should take yourself out of hiding. You should not be able to "Smirk" or "Snort" or whatever when you are "Someone". When someone knows you are there, either go silent and "hide" or give up the chase already!

Unless you want to sneak out and try again or something.
I dunno.
In my opinion, once you have blown it, you have blown it. And it's distracting to see 'Someone giggles" and not look around for the person who is obviously close enough to hear, but nt close enough for me to have noticed that they are leering over me.

Sorry. That's my rant.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:36 pm

As for your rant Mariela... some good points... BUT

The market is quite crouded... if someone is hidden they could do something like

someone chuckles from one of the merchant stands 'Yes, very sad indeed

someone apears to be speaking from a different location 'You can try to find me, but will never succeed

but on the other hand when stuff like

Someone pokes you in the ribbs

is quite out of hand.. UNLESS they are invisible... then magic is excused

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:59 pm

But there is a certain point t hat if you are hiding...

And you know ICly's you are in a crowded place....

Let's say, the Market Place.

And there is only 2 PC's in it, having a long conversation about toast.

And you type something in and it says,

Someone says, "These two both should be destroyed, for toast is too good for the world. I shall wait until they leave and slay them.."

It seems fair that the market is crowed.
HOWEVER
some ooc common sense should apply to the hider.

Why do you "speak" to yourself?
I realize it's boring watching people talk about toast, but that is the breaks you have to put up with if you want to sneak around and spy on people. They don't have to talk about anything awesome around you by virtue of the fact you are hiding.

Nor do you HAVE to speak to yourself, or do things.

It's probably just me, and before you say, "It's cause you have never hidden after someone."
You are correct.
I have a character who has hide, but rarely uses it.

Because I get better info by talking to people, rather than skulking about after it.