Changing the process of dwellings

[Shabanna]

There are a lot of wonderful ideas. I could not say what will be best. but I have a few holes to punch in some things

1. Kismet: though many people actually work hard for Kismet there is no way to prevent the following AIM conversation to 32512385613 of "joeshmoe's" closest buddies

Joe: Dude! I need serious Kismet Hit me up a lot the next time you see me

Dude: Sure man I just made my wemic and I stil have some left... but I need about 200 plat to buy my armour.

Joe: NP dude I got 150 plattie.
(and so on and so forth ) Kismet... is really not as "hard earned" for some as it is for others.

2. THE MYTH that coin is easy to come by: Not... anymore! It is a lot harder to come into that 200 plat without contacting "Dude"

3. People will "twink for coin" to buy a dwelling: Welllllll... When we were trying to by our house IRL we did anything we could for the cash lol and I think, to be honest...ICLy if a character wants a house and wants to go out and kill stuff for coin... WHY is this wrong??? Why would it be considered twinking when it is to earn money for a dwelling. If I say to x pc I am trying to earn coin for me and my new spouse to have a home would you be interested in coming along ... and we go.. and we RP and kill a lot of stuff it seems to me... that is simply "earning"
( it troubles me that suddenly everyone thinks killing for coin = twinking????) I think people can RP and kill stuff too sorry sometimes.. you just gotta "work" and for a lot of warriors "work"=killing stuff
I say it is better to "earn" coin by killing stuff than for "Joe" to contact "Dude" for coin. At some point...we have got to accept that it *is* possible for a character to RP and kill too and that some people are just going to avoid RP no matter what... that is why we have Imms .. people who can say Man... so and so ioes nothing but kill maybe its time a little Imm run RPage happend to that dude ;P ( just my 2 cents)

4. Impartial committees would be best: I think there should be an application process... but it really needs to be streamlined IMHO. I think anytime you put together a group on this mud... you are going to have people who are biased... And to be honest... some of that bias may rule out Good people getting a dwelling. (as well as let a few of "joes" and "dudes" slip through because there is no way to police ooc behavior or cliques... NONE.

5. Rewards for contributions to the MUD : Though this sounds lovely... there are some people who love to RP and come log on and play like dogs. They just dont have the extra time, or the talent to code, build, design,write quests. That does not mean that that player does not deserve a dwelling... it means that player really had no way to exactly contribute. One would be inclined to say " Well if they RP they will have the kismet" but .. .there are some excellent RPers who truthfully are "outside of the clique" who may not get the rewards for their wonderful RP ( even if the deserve it) because "dude and Joe" are too busy passing their kismet around like popcorn between eachother and they may not know then ICly or like the other player OOCly yeah... see?? That is a problem.(even if people want to denyit, it happens...) and unfortunately... a person like this will get most of their rewards from Imms... ( which is not as frequent an occurrance. )

SO what is the solution???

I would say there needs to be system of checks and balances

1. Coin- Put a set price on it with a NON refundable application fee-- dont make it tooo expensive but make it something people really do have to work for ( we NEED stuff to work for!) non refundable means... wow I really need to be serious about this

2. A committee is okay... but I think that committee should be by application and then nominated and voted on by the entire immortal staff. and I agree with Algon...that 3 immortals would be a lovely number... for overseers to said committee in the event that there is a problem those imms can replace a member etc.

3. so after a person pays the app fee they put in an app for a dwelling if they pass the simple checks like no strikes and has been on the game for x amount of time ( I liked the 1 year suggestion by penryn) and they are approve by the "committee" they submit detailed descs, pay that lovely Kismet and the entire cost of the dwelling... and wait

4. the dwelling would then go to a builders who volunteer for this task.
though--I would suggest a discount for anyone who is willing to code their own place

5. finally... If a person goes Poof and the char is MIA with no word for X amount of time then that dwelling should be stripped of Decs and resold PERIOD. It is the consecquence for going poof. Make and upkeep fee of 1 plat to be paid each month so you can keep up with who is MIA and for how long. If people have a personal reason for leaving for a bit and notify the committee then that is an exception. but unexplained disappearances...would warrant a resale period.

Not everyone wants a dwelling. I think some really just want a "ministorage" area not to be RPed in. Maybe we also need to figure out a way to code storage for those people who just want a place to put all the stuff they have acquired while RPing. (besides carts which disappear and are Robbed or stolen entirely.)

okay... shutting up now... lol I hope some of it was clear >.<
" The Banna"

[Bugoron]

5. Rewards for contributions to the MUD : Though this sounds lovely... there are some people who love to RP and come log on and play like dogs. They just dont have the extra time, or the talent to code, build, design, write quests. That does not mean that that player does not deserve a dwelling... it means that player really had no way to exactly contribute.

I'd like to take a moment just to politely debate this point.

- Dwellings could be a reward system based on how much one has contributed to the game.

This was the stipulation that was set down that is in question from the first quote. I would point out, however, that it is not specified as to what exactly -contribution- in this sense means, therefore it is not so out of the question to assume that a player who RPs exceptionally and ICly contributes to the game will have as much credibility and qualifications to receive this reward.

Secondly, I would also like to point out that Forgotten Kingdoms is a non-profit, volunteer environment. The money that, generally, changes hands is that which pays the bills that the main owners of FK have to cover to keep the game operational. Beyond that, the only usual exchange of money is the FK Shop, which goes directly back into paying for the bills of operation again. In short, no one playing, overseeing, coding, or building the world of Forgotten Kingdoms is making money from it. Personally, I don't see why recognizing this hard work, which in turn is beneficial for the entire playerbase of the game, is such a skeptical concept.

I just wish to remind everyone of the fact that, without the people behind the scenes making everything work and grow, we wouldn't be arguing about whether or not certain people deserve special things like dwellings, because the game would be nothing compared to what is has blossomed into.

Banna, I agree with you on a good number of the other points you made, and I'm glad you're willing to point them out, as we do need to make input to get this idea off the ground. As I said, I'm simply, and politely, debating one that I don't so much agree with.

While on the topic, though, I would like to thank those people I mentioned (Coders, builders, etc.), because I realized how easily the spotlight fades behind the big curtain.

[Raona]

Correct me if I am wrong, but all dwellings are required to have a storeroom. That means you have a place that you can store your belongings.

I think Harroghty was after the same possibility Shabanna mentioned, namely, the possibility of a place to store things, short of the expense and effort of a dwelling.

People will "twink for coin" to buy a dwelling

It makes sense, IC, for a PC to do what they need to do if they need/want a dwelling. It therefore makes a lot of sense OOC for the process that leads to a dwelling to generate as much RP as possible, in my opinion. Coin just doesn't seem to do that.

[Telk]

I don't agree with selling dwellings off if a character goes MIA for a certain period of time. First of all, a dwelling is something that is a big thing, you get your own house to store all your stuff in, set up furniture and RP in. Just because someone goes for a while I don't think would warrant a loss of their dwelling. You store all the stuff that you want to keep in their, hours and hours of items, just to have it all go poof with your dwelling that you spent a lot of kismet and coin on, just because you went away? People lose interest in chars, they have to go away suddenly, natural disasters happen, stuff in the family comes up. Now you can alert the council, but what if no one on the council is on, and you post something, but it never gets to anyone? Not to mention that'd be extremely cumbersome, and it'd cause a lot of problems ("Oh, you didn't tell me he was going away, oops, already sold his dwelling.") not to mention keys left on the original owner.

I also disagree with reselling dwellings, or having dwellings sold on a premade scale. Too me that cheapens the whole experience a LOT. I think a dwelling is something that -you- design, you do the descriptions and you do the rooms you want, and the layout of it, essentially it is your little piece of the MUD that no one else but you can go into uninvited. Now to have premade descriptions and all that would be very...dull.

I think building dwellings the way they are, as in looking like current PC dwellings in the game is great.

I'd defininitely agree with a kismet cost, and a pretty hefty one at that. The way it is right now is that I think just about every level 50 could get a dwelling because the costs would be super low, like Shabanna said I think a dwelling is something that should be worked for, and I think worked for pretty hard, rather than 'Oh, I got cash sitting in my bank, and some kismet, let's go get a house!' Now I don't think the costs should be high, but I think they should be something that you work for, it's appreciated more. And it'd stop the situation of just about everyone getting a dwelling, now I don't think this is bad, I just want them to remain pretty unique.

I'd agree with kismet defraying the cost of the dwelling in coins, I'd suggest a kismet requirement, then you can pay more kismet to lower the cost in coins. This wouldn't be very IC, but I don't think that'd be too much of a problem. And of course, kismet costs, not just checks.

A big thank you to all the imms and builders that are doing this for us

[Mele]

I don't think writing a room desc or a quest without hard code is beyond common sense. If we can all write a character description, we can write a room description. If we all can run a quest, we can write a quest. The beauty of FK is that people are ready and willing to code the technical aspects so that people with ideas can still be heard.

Does that seriously happen with kismet? Seriously? That's a pretty baffling idea. It's kind of a little upsetting to think that people with 8000 accumlated kismet and 1000 current are looked on as people who reward because someone asks them.

I don't understand the solution for point number five here. Why would you punish someone who takes a break because some people swap kismet poorly? And futhermore, why do people not have a right to take a break from the game without losing things they worked for? A dwelling is not a faith manager position which requires work. If a person left the coin in their dwelling to keep it upkept during their abscense why should they be punished?

I'm so tired of hearing bias and favoritism. You know what people who cry favoritism are commiting? A poor bias about the person recieving. There is no way any one person who is just a plain old player can know every single action one person does to discern whether or not they deserve the rewards they recieve. There is no way an NC could. The only people who know what a person does for their part of FK are the people doing it and the imms watching it. It is all a big circle. If people paid more attention to what they were doing rather than what other people were recieving it would likely all even out.

As far as the whole "Oh I have cash in the bank and kismet I think I'll get a house thing" I think that may just happen at the very begining for quite a few people. A lot of people have been waiting a very long time to recieve a dwelling. Is it a bad thing they kept their coin saved in packs on horses and in the bank for a dwelling they thought would cost much more? No. A lot of people did not even apply for a dwelling because of the backload, and were they not closed for apps for some time there? I can tell you I had the coin and with held on applying for those reasons, and had I not used the coin to help new faith members. I think that's something we need to take into consideration right now.

/endrant
Danica

[Apillini]

Going to make a few of my points in reply to your post, Shabanna.

1. Kismet: though many people actually work hard for Kismet there is no way to prevent the following AIM conversation to 32512385613 of "joeshmoe's" closest buddies

Joe: Dude! I need serious Kismet Hit me up a lot the next time you see me

Dude: Sure man I just made my wemic and I stil have some left... but I need about 200 plat to buy my armour.

Joe: NP dude I got 150 plattie.
(and so on and so forth ) Kismet... is really not as "hard earned" for some as it is for others.

Though I must admit I really can't see this happening, why should the kismet option be tossed aside because some people might abuse it? The best solution to this is to punish the people who actually do this sort of thing, not everyone as a whole because someone might.

Raona said my exact thoughts on point three. It is twinking because there is no RP to speak of there. Going out and kicking the snot of out goblins is fine if you're a fighter, but if you're kicking these goblins around for the reason that you want to get a dwelling... it just doesn't seem to add up. On the other hand, if you're going to learn a trade from a PC or looking for a Gondar priest to help craft your temple, you're including people other than yourself. To me, that's an excellent alternative to killing for coin.

5. finally... If a person goes Poof and the char is MIA with no word for X amount of time then that dwelling should be stripped of Decs and resold PERIOD. It is the consecquence for going poof. Make and upkeep fee of 1 plat to be paid each month so you can keep up with who is MIA and for how long. If people have a personal reason for leaving for a bit and notify the committee then that is an exception. but unexplained disappearances...would warrant a resale period.

Going to have to agree 100% with Telk here. Stuff happens, and people take breaks all the time for whatever reason. Dwellings shouldn't have to be a responsibility, they should be a reward for whatever reason, be it a job well done on building or code testing, or for good RP. Being forced to log on the character to keep something that you personally earned through hard work can take a lot of fun out of playing the character. Obviously, if the player in question is banned or has had their character deleted or has shown no interest in returning to the MUD, this might be a different story; however, I don't think that punishing someone for a less permanent absence is going to be helpful. Besides, what harm is being done if these dwellings are left in? There are plenty of spots in cities and other areas all over the game (thanks to the dedicated builders and coders, who I will take this moment to thank personally for their work), so if one is used, well, just move onto the next.

Getting back to the original topic here, I think that the imms should decide who should and should not get a dwelling (not telling them what to do, just personal opinion here). Getting people to vouch ICly and/or OOCly will quickly get people who may not be fully deserving into getting a dwelling, and other deserving RPers who contribute to the game may be overlooked entirely. I have mixed feelings about a committee; while it's a good idea on paper, it may become general knowledge who is applying for a dwelling, who is receiving one and who is not, and this could become a big problem.

1 dwelling point = 10 kismet = 50 platinum = 1 glory

I really like this idea, but I think the formula should be shifted somewhat to: 1 dwelling point = 10 kismet + 50 platinum + 1 glory, and maybe bump up the glory a bit. I agree with what Lerytha said about glory:

Glory, being the repute of your character bringing workers to your side to help you build a dwelling, regardless of payment. It would give another use to glory, and help you feel as if your adventurer truly is famous throughout the Realms.

To me, it only makes sense that this reason would be used for paying glory as part of the cost. Bringing Raona's dwelling point system into mind, perhaps the initial cost of a dwelling could be two dwelling points, and then every room in the dwelling could be one dwelling point.

[Caelnai]

I really like this idea, but I think the formula should be shifted somewhat to: 1 dwelling point = 10 kismet + 50 platinum + 1 glory, and maybe bump up the glory a bit. I agree with what Lerytha said about glory:

Lots of ideas here to comment on, but here's an easy one; make the glory requirement too high and there will be no more dwellings in Underdark. There are too few quests down there to earn it.

Just using a simple point to elaborate a basic point; a system designed for one set of PC's or to combat one type of 'abuse' may not be very fair in implementation.

[Shabanna]

1. actually the thing with kismet DOES happen...

2. I never said that people with hard earned 8000 kismet are assumed to have done that lol I just said the "shoot me some kismet" thing happens sometimes... and that basing a dwelling system solely on kismet...might not be the best plan because of that. ( just my opinon )

3. I did not say the word favoritism pleah...I think the imms are very fair when it comes to making choices on apps and what not. And I hardly think I am "commiting a poor bias about"... anyone. I never say anything on here I have not personally SEEN happen...and I have SEEN that happen more than once in various forms. In fact... Im one of those who hates it when others simply pass on a vague idea that they fabricate out of hearsay.( it irks me greatly.) There are real people behind all these funny little characters we have... people with real lives and real feelings. (I have been lucky enough to meet some of them IRL and they are amazing people... that I love to bits!)

When I spoke about cliques I was talking about players... not imms or staff or admin. I never spoke of "favoritism" at all ( did not even use that word). As a matter of fact. I suggested that the entire admin/ imm staff be the ones who make the choice. It is when we leave things to the regular players that I take issue not all of us have the same ideas ( As illustrated here in the forums) I trust the unity of the immstaff who ( imho) represent ALL of the different types of players we have...with less of that ugly word..."bias."

4.Honestly I dont wanna punish anyone! lol My post was more about making it a system that sort of checked itself*shrugs* si that less people were "punished" and more people could actually qualify to own a dwelling.

5. I CONCEDE on point 5 totally And when I talked about selling a dwelling ... I mean a char that disappears for like 2 years with no word. I was *not* talking about someone who says... "Oh i wanna take a break." God knows... we all need a break at times I was talking about really MIA characters who never return. Honestly I doubt... that would happen much it was just a point to be covered...and it was an opinion. I am noone of significance.. so it wasnt like my idea was anything more than that lol

6. I think a player who has been on the game for 192385723958 years and has a hoarde of coin and kismet they have been saving up all that time should be FIRST to run in with an app! lol nothing wrong with that at all. LOOOts of folks backlogged cash etc waiting for the dwelling system to reopen. I cant blame them.

so if I gave the impression that I want to punish people or limit things too much. I apologize. I just wanted to make it clear that making the dwellings based soley on ONE aspect ( especially kismet) is maybe not a good plan. When a char gets married it requires an app, costs kismet and coin... and there is not even a great deal of individualized coding to that I think if someone is going to have to code a dwelling for an PC... that PC had better be serious about it... thats all im sayin..

However the imms chose to do it... will be fine when all is said and done.
I trust that it will work out for the best. *rents out the unused room at the drunk ...permanently *

"The Banna"

[Bugoron]

I really like this idea, but I think the formula should be shifted somewhat to: 1 dwelling point = 10 kismet + 50 platinum + 1 glory, and maybe bump up the glory a bit. I agree with what Lerytha said about glory:

Lots of ideas here to comment on, but here's an easy one; make the glory requirement too high and there will be no more dwellings in Underdark. There are too few quests down there to earn it.

Just using a simple point to elaborate a basic point; a system designed for one set of PC's or to combat one type of 'abuse' may not be very fair in implementation.

While you have a point, therein lies the beauty of it all. If there is not enough quests in the Underdark areas, then logically it makes sense for people to simply make an effort to create new ones, which is twofold beneficial, as it allows UD characters more glory, AND helps to expand the game ^_^ It's a win win situation, and if using this system promotes expansion of some areas, I'm all for it.

[Gwain]

EDIT - It appaears I am slow to submit responses today, I was writing this while Buguron's went up. My apologies, leavign it because of the email within

I really like this idea, but I think the formula should be shifted somewhat to: 1 dwelling point = 10 kismet + 50 platinum + 1 glory, and maybe bump up the glory a bit. I agree with what Lerytha said about glory
Lots of ideas here to comment on, but here's an easy one; make the glory requirement too high and there will be no more dwellings in Underdark. There are too few quests down there to earn it.

You have the option to write drow quests and submit them to quests@forgottenkingdoms.com, this way the drow pc's in the underdark will be able to make more glory and such. I am sure that there are many out there that can think of some wonderful quests for the drow to do in the night below. Please if you have any submit them

[Lerytha]

It's been an interesting discussion so far, and I agree with most everything that has been said. However, I would like to make a suggestion that glory, kismet and platinum be interchangeable. I think flexibility in dwelling applications is preferable to making people think: "I'm never going to be able to get a dwelling, because I can never make that much coin."

Before I get told that that is the point, I know. But sometimes, to allow everyone to enjoy a benefit to the MUD, we have to take a little leeway. Here's how I see the "flexible dwelling system" working.

1: Qualifying Stage

This is where a player has to come up with a way to pay for the dwelling. So, 50 platinum per room, which is still expensive but not as expensive as 500 platinum. However, they could also pay with 25 kismet, or 25 glory. So (the maximum rooms in a dwelling is 10, I think) you could have a relatively well-off character paying for 5 rooms with hard coin (250 platinum), two with kismet and three with glory. This in my opinion is still a lot of work to find. At this point, we should ask whether it is required that a dwelling application have to be from a level 50. There are pros and cons to this, because I think there are some characters who never want to be level 50, but who should still be able to buy a dwelling. On the other hand, level 50 represents hard work and dedication that might be one other way to measure whether a person is "suitable" for a dwelling.

2: Application Stage

The player writes the proposal for the dwelling, along with the basic description and the place they want it to be. A panel of three imms (?) or perhaps three players. Yes, players can have cliques, but personally as someone who has never really got involved with the OOC world of IM, I have never experienced anything resembling a clique, so I want to suggest that we trust the players given responsibility. I mean, so-and-so might absolutely despise someone else (I'm sure it happens) but we're all mature and I'm sure we can learn to trust players. Giving the responsibility for overseeing applications for a dwelling to players frees up imms for other tasks. I am thinking all three players would have to be active in both RP and building, because then they would have had experience in what works on FK and what does not. Maybe you could even have three players, and one imm (as an independent adjudicator). Either way, the end result of the application stage results in an imm emailing you back, and saying (for example) "Your application to build a palace in Silverymoon will be approved, IF you are willing to pay an extra 50 platinum per room to reflect the riches of your building, (or an extra 25 kismet or 25 glory). Also, we would expect you to RP with blah-blah because you want the palace constructed beside the temple of blah-blah which would ICly require their permission". The imms could then spark off some RP with the applicant. I also see it happening the other way around: "Your application to build a two-room home in Shadowdale will be approved. In light of the simplistic, 'poor-man' decor, you are allowed to strike of 10 platinum from the cost of each room, (and some other amount of glory or kismet which I don't want to work out because of percentages and it being early morning) but we want you to RP with the owner of the Old Skull Inn for...blah blah blah".

3: Email Back

The player emails back, and the dwelling process properly begins. At this point, I can see OOC benefits coming along, which can make the cost cheaper in terms of platinum. Is that realistic? Maybe not. But hear me out. Let's say the applicant is a builder, who offers to build their dwelling personally using code. This saves a LOT of time for the imms who would otherwise have to do it on their own, so the imm decides to strike off the cost of one of the rooms (or some other incentive). This could be given IC justification by the imm telling the player to act as if the materials for the house cost a lot less than was originally expected or something like that.

4: Process Complete

The dwelling is constructed, the player is happy, it still takes a lot of effort to get that far, but not an obscene amount of effort (which I understand a lot of people made that effort, so if it stays at the same old cost, I can appreciate why).

Any suggestions to improve? Considerations? General disagreements?

Sorry for long and convoluted idea.

[Caelnai]

You have the option to write drow quests and submit them to quests@forgottenkingdoms.com, this way the drow pc's in the underdark will be able to make more glory and such. I am sure that there are many out there that can think of some wonderful quests for the drow to do in the night below. Please if you have any submit them

I almost included the rebuttal to this point in my original post. Actually, I have submitted many quests and build applications for Underdark, and I will continue to do so. Still, activity down there lags compared to other parts of the game, and I think it is harsh to penalise the people who are active down there because there are not more of them.

...The *point* of my post was that because of game realities, a simple suggestion like a glory requirement might have some *unintended* repercussions for other PCs. I seriously doubt the original poster of the idea intended it to be a check against PCs having dwellings until their areas are "popular" enough.

[Dalvyn]

(As a side note and particular answer to this point, I'll mention that I always made it clear that I did not intend to devote lots of effort to anything related to the Underdark at this point. Simply because, in my opinion, we don't have a large enough player base to warrant sustaining an underdark community. Builder applications for underdark areas are not refused, but I believe that there are many more "broadly useful" ways to spend builders' time.)

(That means that, you can build a new underdark area and include your quest(s) in there if you want, but I follow the priorities that I set for myself, not those that some people would want builders to follow.)

[Harroghty]

Lerytha brings up some good points in mentioning a kind of sliding scale based on the quality or opulence of a player's dwelling. To borrow from Polonius (and some experience with dwellings on a prior MUD), I believe should, as Lerytha suggest, be able to "costly their habit[tation] as their purse allows." In other words, have a base fee for rooms and instead of some kind of sliding scale based on the quality of the room there could be shops offering furnishing. So as opposed to having determine the worth of a room on a case-by-case basis you would get an empty room you could then stock by visiting the appropriate merchants.

You could also simplify the cost scale by assigning a cost based on the area. Location, location, location... so charge differently if the dwelling is in the Dock Ward or the North Ward for example.

I think dwellings should be primarily purchased in coin. Perhaps a glory or kismet level should be necessary (this would mitigate the trouble Lerytha pointed out regarding some characters just preferring to not be level 50) as a "cover charge" but you should buy your drinks in platinum if that makes any sense. Cheers.

[Teyn]

Something that has already been said but I thought I'd lend my support to and attempt to clarify a little to do with this sliding scale malarky...

Characters such as fighters, wizards and rogues are more likely to have coin and wish a dwelling in the city, so the main payment for them would be in gold (though how extravagent/austere would depend on the character).

However, rangers, druids and I suppose barbarians are more likely to live away from all that, and as such could have a dwelling in a forest or some such place. Because it would be a simple dwelling (in so far as the standard conceived), it's cost in gold could be low, but with a higher kismet/glory cost to make up the difference, and better reflect how it is likely the character would come into possesion of this place, i.e. glory could reflect the extent of friendliness between the PC and the 'managers' of the area - This friendiness would be extended to the PC in form of a favour - letting them have the plot. The reason for why glory/kismet would diminish is that otherwise, many such favours would lead to the feeling of being taken advantage of, and thus there is only so much tolerance before favours are no longer extended.

In most cases, I should imagine clerics and paladins would be divided between the two, paying halfway between coin and kismet/glory.



I also support the notion of having different costs for different areas, and what you get for it.

For example, A dwelling in waterdeep could be fairly extravagent, rather secure, yet very costly. A dwelling in Westgate would (with the possibility of the odd manor here and there that would have to pay 'insurance' to the night masks, and such factions?) not be allowed to be extravagent, is not very secure, has a smaller room limit, though costs much less.


I'd agree that a small 'council' would be sufficient, for the reason that, in my experience thus-far, the players are mature enough not to let ooc relations interfere.


On another note, I was thinking that maybe the cost could be in some way related to charisma? That would definately be one more 'tangible' (if such a word can be used to describe events of fiction) benefit of cha. IC-wise, this could reflect how workers might love the works of a certain high-cha bard and give discounts or think less of a favour. Maybe they respect the high priest with a good-cha enough to favour a few costs. And if someone was an absolute piece of work, e.g. a hunch-backed, pock-ridden beshaban who drools as they talk (Sorry if there is such a character!), they might try to cheat them out of everything they could out of sheer spite.

Sorry for the long read and possibly making ambiguous what I seeked to disambiguate (i think that's the right word)

Anasil

[Nysan]

My opinion on dwellings is not exactly neutral but no harming in tossing out my thoughts.

I support a kismit cost for dwellings being first considered over in-game coin cost. Perhaps charge kismit to build the home but charge a monthly in-game coin fee for maintaince and other in-game costs. This promotes a more even playing field for getting a dwelling between the heavy-RPers and the coin-gatherer playstyles.

When I consider dwellings, my first thought is the development of Settlestone (told you I wasn't neutral ). If we drop the initial coin-costs of building and start up the dwelling program again we could get some of our other long-time dwarves set up with homes and vendors easier in Settlestone, opening up the poorly developed area and at the same time open up more RP avenues.

My thoughts, whats yours?

[Ninde]

When I consider dwellings, my first thought is the development of Settlestone (told you I wasn't neutral ). If we drop the initial coin-costs of building and start up the dwelling program again we could get some of our other long-time dwarves set up with homes and vendors easier in Settlestone, opening up the poorly developed area and at the same time open up more RP avenues.

My thoughts, whats yours?

I agree with you at that point. Humans can live in Waterdeep or other over human populated cities's various inns, as it is mentioned in Harpers Series, Danilo Thann was living in Purple Minatour in Zazzespur. But we cannot expect all races would have the same taste of inns within human cities or style, so they tend to sleep in the middle of the forest(Like my char does so), or a mountain or somewhere else. And for dwarves, they would probably prefer solid rock caverns, or rock carved houses or something similar to that. Or for elves, they would probably prefer a dwelling within a forest, as it may vary from a tree house to great handsome houses of Evermeet, or old Cormanthyr. I can see the depth of roleplaying with these small points; and PC's would start to live all around the Faerun, not only Waterdeep based roleplay as we mostly have today.
For all races, a priest of a faith would probably have his/her own room within the temple raised and taught. As similar to that, a mage probably would have his/her own personal room in the wizard towers. Perhaps that kind of dwelling should take little coin, just as a room (and storeroom).

[Nysan]

After thought:

I feel we shouldn't consider all dwellings equal. Not saying some should be considered better than others. But the area the player is applying to build in should be a consideration. Special areas, like Settlestone (I know there are more but cannot recall), where player-run are key to the area should be looked at in a different light than those more NPC-run. In the past we tried to encourage players to build in these places. In any new system, I feel we should still encourage players to do so.

Also, the seeking builders and other NPC ideas. This may work for the more mundane dwellings in cities, but how would this play out for a druid/ranger wanting to make a home in Ardeep? (there are rooms for dwellings there already, btw) Or some other special area?

[Lea]

I like the idea of being able to use kismet/coin/glory points for building houses. I don't think all should be required but maybe some combination of each. I know that gathering coin is not as easy at is once was. Glory is another thing that can be kind of hard to come by especially if you have used it to train things like feats, or stats or used it to get items renamed. And what do you do about the people who reward alot for rp with their kismet. They lose the kismet to reward and if they do it enough they also may not have alot of kismet left to build a house. These are things you might also want to think about and maybe figure out a way work those into the equation on how they could build a dwelling.


I will be honest with you I am one of those people who have been on here for years and saved up lots of coin and I have quite a bit of kismet I earned. About two years ago I did send in an applilcation and was told that the dwellings on hold. I know there are probably a few people around in the same situation. And since Lea got pregnant she was spending alot more money than she could bring in so the amount of coin she had lessoned quite a bit. So I would definatly like to see other options come in.

I know that right now applications have to be sent in and approved by the imms. I honestly think that the approval should stay in the hands of the imms and not be set up for players to vote. Unfortunately you will get people who will vote no just because they don't like the person.

I had other ideas but can't think of them now. I will get back on here later with the other ideas.

[Rhianon]

I'm just glad getting a home in RL isn't nearly as difficult, with so many people trying to decide if you DESERVE one. If you can afford one, and can get the building permit, and all the inspections done, then you have a home. On FK EVERYONE thinks they should have a say in who gets it, and if they deserve it or not, how many cities have you been to that you RARELY SEE A HOUSE/HOME? How many houses/homes do you see in Waterdeep? With a city that is suppose to be so large, there sure are not many homes, where do all the merchants live, where do all those characters live who are always wandering around the city? Surely they don't all live in an Inn? Just my two cents worth. I know I know, two cents isn't worth much these days.