SpellCraft

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:33 pm

I was reading Hand of Fire the other day and I saw something that made me think of the game.
There is a part in the book where two mages are fighting and one goes to cast a spell. The other mage did not recognise the spell that was being cast.

So this made me think about our spellcraft skill. Should Anyone be able to tell what spell is being cast? Fighters should really not know what spell is coming their way because they do not know anything about spells. A mage who has never studied a spell should not be able to tell what a spell is if he has never heard it before .

Would it be possible to make it to where a wiz can only tell what spell is being cast if he already knows that spell? Any maybe take the skill completely away from Warriors and such who should not be able to tell what magic is being used?
Just a though....
Jeff

*edit* Maybe this should be under the skills forum....my bad

Kilak · Post by **Kilak** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:01 pm

It is a high level skill for warriors. I think it should stay as is. Even though you don't have training in spells, if over the course of your adventuring career, when ever a mage says "Blah, Blah, Blue" and a lightning bolt shoots at you, then eventually you will learn to recognize when someone is casting lightning bolt.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:07 pm

I have to disagree, what warrior is just going to sit there and intently listen to what the spell that is being cast at him sounds like? Not me...I am going to be trying to cut off heads lol.

Kilak · Post by **Kilak** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:20 pm

That is true, but a smart warrior keeps his head during a fight and listens to what is going on around him.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:22 pm

Also true...but if just hearing a muttered spell during battle was enough to know what it is spellcasting would not be that difficult of a thing.

Kilak · Post by **Kilak** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:33 pm

I'm not saying after one battle, but if you fight mages a lot and face a lot of lightning bolts, one would assume you would pick up on body language, arm movements and words.

If not, then you are definately a poor warrior and better off toasty!

Paskry · Post by **Paskry** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:39 pm

Not all spells are muttered for one.
Second thing is:
If you are playing a char who spends more time chopping heads than thinking strategically, don't train spellcraft.
And also, when you learn spellcraft, it seems to me that the trainer would tell you what to expect and what certain phrases mean.... I hope that makes sense.

Paskry

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:21 am

I think that there would be only certain spells that a warrior or even wizard would begin to recognize the patterns and words. Even a head-chopper would pick up on certain spells, if it happened enough to him.

What makes a wizard is there ability to channel or mould arcane power; warriors do not have this. Therefore, I believe it would be possible for any class to learn spellcraft, but it would take time to study (books or watching the actual practice of the spell). If a person studies the technique of spells, they could learn to recognize them.

I think spellcraft should be left open to all classes, but perhaps wizards and priests would be able to learn it faster, even start with a certain level of it (novice or apprentice).

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:27 am

That's one of the big absurd result of applying blindly a skill-point-based system to a skill-based mud.

Skill-point-based system = you have an amount of skill points and you get some skill points each time you level up and you get to spend them (more or less) however you want on various skills.

Skill-based mud = you can train all you want, there is no cap (well, there is a cap, but, of all things, they chose to set it on LANGUAGES you can speak, the kind of skills more directly associated with roleplay - but I won't start the language cap rant here again).

That means that, in DnD (skill-point-based), it's perfectly fine to allow fighters to learn spellcraft. That is just one of the available choice. But it means that, if they spend their points on spellcraft, they won't be able to put the very same points in another, perhaps more fighter-like (more ''usual'') skill. That means that they might have a harder time tumbling past enemies, or riding their mount, or ...

On the mud, all given skills can be learned (and provided there is a trainer and the PC finds him/her), there is absolutely no restriction on how many of them you can have, as long as you have exp to train them / time to practice them.

I wouldn't mind seeing the mud go into a direction where it would become more and more based on skill points or some other form of skill cap, and where, for example, all classes would be able to train things like grip, disguise, sneak, pick lock, ... but then would have to do so at the expense of other skills. Perhaps a system based on "favoured" skills too, where some skills would be easier (less exp/practice required to learn/increase) for some classes, but no class would be cut off from any skills. Anyway, that's just some food for thought.

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:10 pm

Dalvyn is that a taste of things to come? Where a char could spend some hard earned skill points for skills that are IC in nature for them to have? A more 3ed Skill System? Well you wont have no complaints from me about that one.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:17 pm

I think that could make thing very interesting indeed. It would be an excelent way to be able to make your character different from all the other ones. A fighter who can pick locks and maybe sneak around some, but is not able to use a shield to save his life. (That is assuming I am understanding what you are saying...which is often not the case lol) I do really like the idea though. Would there be ways to get extra points to train extra skills or is that kind of a set thing in 3ed?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 pm

Nope, I have no idea if that is something that we will ever see on FK or not.

I would be in favour of such a change, but, in the end, only Mask can access the code and change it.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:29 pm

Skill points would be workable in the MUD, merely a change of currencies we spend for out skills.

Currently we chare EXP for trainin up skills and spells. Of course, EXP is infinite, just keep on killing. So as a result, we have to make the skills and their training levels finite (limit the skills each guild has + limit the trainers to a certain level.

Now, with the situation the other way around, by offering a finite currenty like skill points (or semi-finite, ie, allow another currency to be exchanged for a SMALL amount of addition skill points, like with stat and feat points). Suddenly the reason for making the training levels and skill selection finite is unnecessary. A player could train a char's weapon skill in a PARTICULAR weapon to GM, if they pleased, it just means you wouldn't be able to put the points in another skill, or if your wanted to train a skill that was not a class skill, you could do so, with additional points required. Once the points run out, you're stuck with your choices, short of a glory exchange, perhaps.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:32 pm

Yep

I think it would be very awesome to be able to completely build your characters skills from scratch.

Paskry · Post by **Paskry** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:39 pm

How would such a system affect upper-level, established characters?

Paskry

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:04 pm

I think Dalvyn's mention of a skill-point system for skills is a great idea. I know this would take a lot of work, but I think, in the end, it would be worthwhile for rp variety.

If this system were sometime in the future (probably distant future:)), I think it would cross-over with the need for timed-levelling or making levelling more difficult.

With both of these together, passing a level would be a hundred times more satisfying.

Problem: What to do with higher level characters and older characters?

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:54 pm

Back to the topic of spellcraft..

We all have the ability to roleplay a character how we see fit, with some small exceptions. I, personaly, have chosen on several characters NOT to learn certin abilities because they wouldnt know them ICly. Take my ranger for example.. They only know entangle, passplant, and Polymorph. Even though she is a level 50 character. I chose not to take any of the resists heals, I didnt even take bash, kick, and other skills that could be used to my favor. I have several characters, baised on RP, that do NOT know spell craft.

With this said, I believe I can sum it all up with the old phrase: "Just because you can, dosent mean you should"

Everytime I make a character I ask myself what its their background, what do I want from them. Perhaps people should do that first before they attempt to GM every thing they can..