Kismet and Evil Char. Creation...

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:01 am

Okay... so, I had an idea of creating a priest of Mask a bit ago....

So, I spend a couple weeks working out RP, looks, blah blah... all the usual routine.

I log on to create once I have picked out the perfect name (of course

). No deal! Kismet says no.

Now, I realize the reason for the kismet cost on evils. Or, at least I think I do. I believe it is to make sure the player is experienced and has an idea of what they are doing and how to properly RP an evil.

My question is.... I realized after a bit that it was saying no because of my current kismet level (I created a tiefling awhile back I believe...currently level 1

). However, my total kismet FAR exceeds the requirement for this. My question is.... is it possible if the kismet is NOT deducted for the character creation....

can the requirement be based on the TOTAL kismet and not the current?? Only talking about evil char creation here...

I have been around for a bit (couple years I believe, but I don't keep track) and ALL I PLAY IS EVILS. I have 15 alts... 1 is nonevil

. I would like to think I know how to play an evil by now (save the debates for another time

)

I guess I am just disappointed because I got myself all motivated to MUD and put some effort into this alt only to come to a crashing halt

JAke/Tretch, Hunter o' Malar

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:29 am

I was under the impression that creating an evil didn't deduct from your kismet, only making characters of unordinary race. If you are right however, I do agree that it should be based on your total kismet. (it just makes more sense that way)

Tortus · Post by **Tortus** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:11 pm

I totally agree with Tretch, I just had the same experience this weekend, with a char I wanted to make.
As an addition, I'd like to see that the kismet policy on the CN alignment be changed as well.

Oh, and for the record, I couldn't get my char to be CN, but CE worked just fine. That might be a bug.

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:41 pm

The Kismet system was designed to deduct from current Kismet for the creation of unusual races/alignments/classes in order to limit those types of characters. Some reasons for the limitation are due to abuse by "twinkish" players or just plain ignorance by new players unfamiliar with the code and/or the campaign setting. Another reason for limitation is because those types of characters are supposed to be rare and having the creation based upon accumulated rather than current Kismet removes the rarity factor.

A primary reason why Chaotic Neutral alignment has a high Kismet cost is because players were abusing the non-evil nature of the alignment to play an evil character without any penalties of the actual alignment (i.e. red aura, restriction from certain areas/quests, etc.). I won't go into any further discussion of the nature of that alignment in this thread. If anyone wants to talk about it, please be sure to do a forum search to see if there's already a thread on alignments or start a separate thread for that topic.

It's nothing personal nor a reflection on any player's skill at either roleplay or the technical aspects of the game. I've also had to wait to accumulate current Kismet to create new characters. Just be patient, roleplay and you'll be able to get around to it once your accumulated Kismet racks up enough.

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:13 pm

I apologize, but I have to disagree with most of Andreas' post. Although I realize she is defending mud rules, it is not the rule itself I disagree with, its her interpretation.

I do not feel evil characters should be that "rare". If so, then mission is undoubtedly accomplished.

I don't think I should have to sit on other alts basically milking clock just so I can create another evil. My intent with the alt was to help fill out a balance issue at first, Mask really needs priests, then I really started getting into the character and began having high hopes. I feel the kismet cost on evils is more to make sure the player is experienced, as I believe was stated way back when it was discussed, not to make sure evils are rare or limit them.

I think it is more to make sure they are in the hands of an experienced, and hopefully, more responsible player.

Playing the MUD can be streaky at times, new ideas are what keep people running. Making a player sit and milk clock, or play alts they currently have no real desire to play doesn't help anyone IN THIS SITUATION (not referring to plane-touched creation, exotic races, etc) Mainly referring to a player similar to myself creating an evil, etc. PLEASE don't take the last few statements out of context and run off on a tangent

or cite "once every decade type examples" lol

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:48 pm

I know we used both kismet requirements and kismet costs. Are you sure kismet for evil is a cost and not only a requirement?

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:22 pm

Dalvyn wrote:I know we used both kismet requirements and kismet costs. Are you sure kismet for evil is a cost and not only a requirement?

Hmm, well.... I cannot make an evil currently, so my guess is its slightly both.

It is my guess that it views it as a cost (which is why I can't create one), but then does not deduct anything, which eventually arrives us at a requirement.

So.... if that made any sense. Thats what it is lol

Jake

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:32 pm

Kismet costs apply (I believe) mainly to race choice and kismet requirements are applied to some alignments, classes and starting locations.

Both the kismet cost and the kismet requirement are based on current total as opposed to accumulated total. This makes sense for things costing kismet, but throws up the problem that Tretch is querying when it comes to kismet requirement.

To clarify, Andreas did not appear to be stating that evil characters should be rare, he was discussing costs for rare races and not requirement for alignment and class and so forth. Rare races cost kismet because they are uncommon, that is quite correct.

I don't know what the original policy was on using current kismet as opposed to total kismet for evil alignments. Certainly some aspects of the generation system throw out interesting problems.

A player could work their way patiently to 1000 kismet in order to play an exotic race and when they try to make that race a thief they are told they dont have enough kismet. This is because the cost for the race is deducted prior to the check for them having enough to make a thief. I can see similar situations around starting in less common home locations. You have enough to make the race, pass the align and then dont have enough yet to select a hometown.

I think Tretch makes a useful point. At a certain level of current kismet any player can make as many evil thieves (for example) as they wish from non-exotic races. They might only have that bare minimum as their currebt total, but they can create all they wish.

Whereas someone with several thousand kismet who is a competent and responsible player will be told they cant create even a good aligned thief if their current kismet total is below 200 merely because they spent some kismet on creating a couple of exotic races

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:37 pm

Thank you for that Kelemvor.

I was not trying to sound negative towards Andy's post in any way... after re-reading I see it may be seen in that light and for this I apologize

I think Kelemvor has gone over our points nicely. Thanks again.

Jake

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:38 pm

That's my understanding as well. Evil has a kismet requirement, an amount that you must have but it is not deducted. Exotic races have a cost, an amount that is actually removed. I think the situation might be that evil has a requirement based on current kismet rather than total kismet. So, it isn't deducting anything but is checking against a lower number. The question then becomes, do we change the system to require a check of total kismet when creating an evil, rather than one that checks current kismet?

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:43 pm

Well, IMHO if it is simply checking to see if you have enough game time to make the character and not actually taking any kismet away. I do not see why you would have to have the kismet available. It should just check to see if your total kismet is high enough to do so. But that is just my oppinion.