Gate - Demon Summoning

[Glim]

I was wondering, could the gate spell have a second use?

What if you could cast gate without a target, and the spell would summon a demon that would follow you around and you could command?

i.e.

cast 'gate'

You summon a glabrezu from the gates of the Abyss.

The demons could be based on skill with the spell.

Inept: Dretch
Amateur: Quasit
Novice: Babau
Apprentice: Vrock
Journeyman: Bebilith
Adept: Hezrou
Expert: Glabrezu
Master: Marilith
Grandmaster: Balor

Now, depending on your level of the spell, you could summon anything from your level and down. So if you are at apprentice, you could summon a vrock, babau, quasit, or a dretch.

Also, beware higher levels of the spell, because Glabrezu, Marilith, or Balors would all have a chance of resisting your command and going wild, attacking you and anyone around you when they are summoned.

A sanctuary spell would prevent the last three from attacking you, but they still might attack others.

A protection from evil spell would mean that the demon would not go wild and would be under your command.

Now, note, this would not take away the already used use of the spell of opening a portal to someone you wish. Or for an alternative, this could be merely a different spell available to high level conjurers (or to whoever gets it depending on the new spell lists being created).

Just an idea I had for the evil wizardly option of summoning demons.
Feedback is always welcome.

[Hviti]

Maybe there could be two different spells so that goods could summon one set and evils another?

[Argentia]

I believe in D&D goods could use this spell too. Or at least my good priest in Baldur's Gate could. When you summoned the demon, it would attack everything in sight that wasn't under a protection from evil spell. Unless I'm mistaken there were different spells for different demons, but obviously that would be adapted for FK into skill levels.

[Ellian]

Perhaps an additional field could be added to the summon monster spell - i.e. -

Syntax: cast 'monster summon' <monster type>

Instead of having several very similar spells to summon different kinds of monsters, you could summon the desired monster (if it was within your casting ability) by simply specifying.


Jayson

[Athon]

From what I've heard, the 'monster summon' spell is getting a total revamp that is similar to what you speak. The creature that you will summon will depend on your alignment and level.

[Lorion]

If that will happen, I still think there should be at least two or maybe three different "monster summon" spells. There is a difference between summoning a kobold from the same plane, and a demon or maybe celestial from another plane. And at least one of these spells should be a conjurer-only spell(i'm not speaking about what priests get, only among wizards) because conjuring is their special filed

[Isolrem]

I'd prefer two spells.
I could just see the incident where a wizard is cheerfully casting his first Gate spell to surprise a far-away friend and BOOM, a demon appears and tears off his head.

...not that these accidents are not without their charm.

As for monster summon, a demon is not a monster, and the process of Gate much differs from a normal summoned creature.

[Hviti]

Er, how are demons not monsters?

And why is gate so much different from summoning a monster? I don't play DnD so I can't answer for sure on this, but don't both spells create portals to somewhere else through which things can step (except in the case of monster summon the portal only allows one to go through and forces that one to do so)? I can't see a monster just materializing without some sort of transport, but that's just me.

[Dalvyn]

Actually - but mostly FYI - the summon monster spells do not create any portal and do not bring in a creature by just teleporting it there.

ICly, when you summon a creature, you call its mind and create a temporary body that is guided by the mind. When the duration is over, the mind is sent back and the body disappears. If the "creature" is slain, the mind is set back and the body dies, till the end of the spell, when the corpse disappears. The creature knows its mind has been summoned, but it is in no risk to truly die (you might actually have some fun and have your players be the targets of a summoning spell that went awry - I based a whole table-top campaign on that idea and it was quite fun for them to try and get back to the summoner who "used" them).

On the other hand, when you use gate or a calling spell, you bring the creature in. Unlike with the summoning spells, nothing guarantees that you have full control over the creature there (it might attack you, talk with you and refuse to obey till a satisfying deal has been found, ...). That's a first important difference between summoning and calling (gate): you might have to pay a price to "convince" the creature to help you or do what you want it to do since, in this case, if the creature dies, it truly dies (and its corpse remains there where it died).

A second difference: Calling spells allow you to "access" more powerful creatures. Summoning spells (summon monster I, summon monster II, ..., summon monster IX in D&D) can only "bring in" relatively weaker creatures. You can't summon a balor or a pit fiend with even summon monster IX for example. You can, with a spell like gate, but then there's a risk: it might just find you to its taste.

Note: any hint that might be found about above an on-going roleplay might not be entirely fortuitous.

[Hviti]

Thanks for the clarification.

Does that mean that there are two bodies that are exact copies of the monster, with exactly the same physical attributes, for as long as the spell lasts/the double survives?

Also, what happens if the spell's duration runs out/the spell is dispelled? Does the second body just collapse?

[Glim]

If any of you want to see what these demons look like, I can refer you to Dalvyn's awesome post on demonology.

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=1614

[Dalvyn]

Does that mean that there are two bodies that are exact copies of the monster, with exactly the same physical attributes, for as long as the spell lasts/the double survives?

In two different places, yes. I'm not 100% sure what is supposed to happen to the original creature: does it remain there motionless while its mind is busy in the new temporary body or ...?

Also, what happens if the spell's duration runs out/the spell is dispelled? Does the second body just collapse?

Yes. Since the second body is a magical affect, it is dispellable. If you target a dispel magic spell on a summoned creature, it disappears. If you target a dispel magic spell on a called creature, it remains there (well, it might lose the spells currently affecting it, but it stays there). I'm talking table-top here, I don't think that works on here.

[Isolrem]

And I thought by D&D terms monsters were a separate branch from demons? And no summon monster spell would ever conjure a demon?

[Dalvyn]

Nope, you can summon weaker demons and devils with summon monster spells.

[Glim]

Well, Summon Monster IX can summon a vrock if you so desire, I would say that would be the most powerful demon you can summon from the Summon Monster spells. Gate, on the other hand, allows you to summon more powerful creatures, but also more willful creatures. So with more powerful demons, there is a higher risk.

[Solaghar]

I just had two interesting ideas relating to the summoning of demons, although one is only incidental.

While there would be the possibility for abuse with this, maybe other people can imagine a way to forestall that with what I think is really a novel idea. When you summon a demon, you have a match of wills with it ala the PHB which relates to saving throws of some sort, a willpower check or something. If you succeed, you get to set the target that the demon is hunting in terms of code. What this means is that once you summon the demon, it will treat whoever you set as it's target as the person it hunts. Which means that if they're in a place that the demon can get to, they will go after it. In my opinion, this is far more in line with what demon summoning is like in D&D as opposed to summoning one that would just be your pet... most demons are far too powerful and capricious to act in that capacity for long, but they might still agree to kill someone so long as you will release them from their summoning afterwards, which this would automatically do.

The second idea would be useful for demon summoning, but could be used in many different areas. Basically this would be a circle of protection spell. I'm not sure if these have been discussed before, but my basic idea would be that once the spell is cast, unlike a normal spell, this would have no time limit as such, but would only expire once you left the circle (i.e. left the room) While the spell is cast, you would be in essence, immune to whatever you set the spell to protect you from, I would suggest more blanket features such as good, evil, elements, etc... rather than one for each individual resistance. The spell could be cast over your entire party, with a commiserate increase in the amount of mana used.

While the spell is cast, nothing that would damage you with whatever the spell is cast against would work, though if you make an attack, the spell is broken. In a way this would be like a stationary spell of sanctuary that would protect against more specific things, and hence would be a fairly low level spell, while a spell as powerful as sanctuary might be moved up the ranks to something higher level. But spells such as these circles of protection would greatly increase the chance for successful demon summoning (or higher plane-being summoning for good characters) and as such would have their niche of usefulness as well as be quite good for low level characters to cast in dangerous areas to allow their parties to recuperate for a while.

[Glim]

In D&D, circles are merely permanent landmarks that have a permanent spell affixed to them. Usually circle of protection from evil/chaos and dimensional anchor. Instead of them being around the person, they are usually cast around the place the demon is summoned at.