Mining - Weaponsmithing/Armorsmithing

[Ungtar]

Okay, this system is pretty cool. I've just started and I'm digging it.

I don't know what can be explained to me through the forum, so feel free to draw whatever lines ya need to around the IC/OOC zones ..

But I have some questions:

1. Do people actually buy weapons and armor from PC smiths? So far at a relatively low level I've been handed masterwork, end-game gear in easy quests. It's not magical, but I don't think my lowly dwarf smith is going to be cranking out vorpal swords anytime soon. I don't know how a PC smith can compete. Advice please!

2. Ore is a huge bottleneck. I've seen maybe 1 or 2 other players mining and no ore sold in stores so far. Is it just not done?

3. Is it something most people do as they level up or is it something they do only after they've hit top level?

[Aldren]

Welcome to the exciting (read: boring) and fun (read: time-consuming) world of trades. As someone who has spent thousands of hours grinding out trades to be able to forge masterwork and trademarked weapons and armor, let me just answer your questions as plainly and realistically as I can.

1. Do people actually buy weapons and armor from PC smiths? So far at a relatively low level I've been handed masterwork, end-game gear in easy quests. It's not magical, but I don't think my lowly dwarf smith is going to be cranking out vorpal swords anytime soon. I don't know how a PC smith can compete. Advice please!

*No one really buys weapons from PC smiths. Armor is a different story, but harder to make. As you pointed out, with tons of masterwork and +1 weapons available from even level 1 quests, weapons from PC smiths have become extremely devalued (even masterwork weapons which take an extremely large deposit of time to become able to create).

2. Ore is a huge bottleneck. I've seen maybe 1 or 2 other players mining and no ore sold in stores so far. Is it just not done?

*There are plenty of miner characters IC (I have 3 of them myself) and you will find people willing and able to sell their ore and ingots (though many of them will keep it to use for their own selfish trades). You may find a store or two who deals in ore, but not in great quantity nor regularly.

3. Is it something most people do as they level up or is it something they do only after they've hit top level?

*Simply put, both. Dwarves, gnomes, and Gondar I can see using trades more often as a low level, many of us use trades as a good filler for "end-game" and as an enhancement for RP and character development.


I hope this helps a little bit. These are my opinions and what I've observed since the trades system was changed and adjusted.

[Ungtar]

So the 500+ real-life hours I spend learning to craft weapons and armor is still out-done by the items you get from handing in a significant number of rat heads?

Yeah, that's a bit ... well ... picture a balloon which just got deflated.

I had 2 masterwork axes, 3 masterwork armor pieces, and a masterwork warhammer by the time I hit level 20.

[Aldren]

This is something that has been discussed so very many times in the past 15 years - before, during, after the entire trades system was revamped. See below:

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=17970&p=116868

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=17893&p=116425

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=17846&p=116256

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16901&p=109866

..and all I can really advise now is the following:
*Gains happen much more quickly now than they ever did before.
*Most of your time crafting items will be done off-line.
*The rewards are great if you can get to be a master. No, you can't enchant items yet. Yes, there is always a possibility of something changing in the future (with enough petitioning and the ability to do so with the limitations of hard code).

[Ungtar]

The limitations could be easily overcome for now by adding style. I'm not sure if this is available to us or not in the existing system (haven't progressed very far) ...

Right now, the real-life me sells knives for a living. I make them here in my off-grid forge and I ship them out to customers I find on the internet. At various times I've made swords and daggers for the SCA types but mostly now it's just hunting knives.

You can buy a Bowie knife from just about anywhere on the internet, and it will probably even be cheaper. But having it customized to your specifications is the key and why I haven't starved to death.

If I become a master armorsmith, my masterwork plate mail may not be any cooler than what's available already easily in game, but having it made in the style and color the purchaser specified is a whole other deal.

People do pay for +style.

[Ungtar]

Glancing at it ... the stock answer seems to be "crafting is more roleplay".

Well, unless people are willing to roleplay handing me over large amounts of platinum for my roleplayed weapons ... yeah, I think I'm going to go back to workin' on the ol' warrior skills.

[Ungtar]

Looks like some of my "new" ideas are eight years old, based on those threads you posted.

Ah well.

The crafting system is really well done, it's just sort of shoe-horned into the existing system. I can see that it would work GREAT for consumables like scrolls and potions.

The only way I could see putting the time into it now for indestructable items like weapons and armor would be if the imms help provide additional support that the game mechanics don't cover. Like restringing the variables on an item and such, not changing its stats to make it uber.

A +3 sword created by the mad mage Gooblesnipper is always going to be better than something I beat on with a blacksmith's hammer.

[Korwin]

If enough people are supportive of a increase the the actual master-grandmaster benefits of crafts. I've got an idea that maybe be a simple addition, something that *may* (for I know nothing of game coding) be able to be implemented without tons of work by the dedicated staff. I suggest that a master/grandmaster crafter be able to construct a piece that bears an enchantment (+1, with a chance of +2 at grandmaster) after X amount of Real Life time passes, Oh I don't know lets say 4-8 months?

There is obvious options to complicate this, but an easier way would be just applying to get a certain token, in which the crafter can enter a room which will enable his item to be modified. Oh perhaps getting staff permission before embarking on the craft, and when it is finished they can roll a d20 (LOL) to determine the strength of your enchantment.

Just my thoughts on the whole thing, I'd be supportive of ways for tradesman to *rarely* make items on par with quest rewards, some weapons are very hard to find enchanted and this make those weaponsmiths highly sought after. I like the crafting system and strive to do some sort of trade on all my characters.

[Ungtar]

Some good ideas, but I think the issue is more the quest rewards and item saturation.

Some of my characters wear gear well up past level 30 that they got for clearing rat heads because the gear is just that good. And a quick check using detect magic shows that the vendors have a couple of dozen magical items in every flavor ready to sell.

Based on what I'm seeing so far with my weaponsmith, I think you'd take RL years to really master your craft (which may be what the architects want). However if the end result of all that RL labor is that you're not making something even as good as the Dung Sweeper's guild will hand you, then that's kind of an issue. And we can't even say that the smithing is roleplay geared really because it all takes place offline.

I have a small blacksmithing business. My primary sell item is hunting knives. What keeps me afloat is letting the customer design the knife and getting the balance and specifications that they request. Specifically. It's like having a custom suit tailored just for you.

I'd suggest something along those lines in game terms. If Sir DeepPockets would like a really good sword, then let him seek out a good blacksmith and have one made specifically for him. To his arm length, to his height, reach, strength, etc. It would be a good sword for everyone else, but for Sir DeepPockets whom it was made ... it would be a SPECTACULAR sword.

I still contend the metalcrafting system is very well done (despite some scientific inaccuracies), but it's the rest of the game that came before it which makes it less viable. They just don't fit together well as it currently stands.