Craft Q&A

[Selveem]

Well, considering my skill level and the fact that I've not seen any skill ups at all and the obvious fact that it only takes longer each level you increase, I hate to admit that Athon's suspicion as to how long it takes sounds reasonable, if you actually think about it. It's going to be over a month now for just this one level. After this, there are at least 6 more levels. This is taking over a month, next will take a month and 3 weeks, the next will take 2 months and 2 weeks, etc. That's It's easy to see how this would easily add up to a loooooooooooooong amount of time.

As for my stats, I'm sorry but you can't claim them poor. That's a +3 bonus, not penalty. Just because I don't have high Dex shouldn't mean I can't smith; that's retarded. Especially when you consider Dexterity is not an attribute greatly required of smiths (especially as opposed to say... Strength).

Regarding my intent to become a teacher, forgive me for saying so, but that's my intent. I didn't go through a year of smithing and over 40 levels of saving up these stats and placing them specifically so I can become a teacher just to be told 'don't worry about it, someone else can do it.' Kinda a smack in the face. I also refuse to believe you need some silly +2 feat to make yourself a decent smith; that, too, would be a smack in the face.

For the record, I'm not angry nor do I take offense to you Gilain; I know you meant well.

[Isolrem]

This would be easier for players to report if there was a meter to see how far each skill is progressed to the next level.

I mean we already have the very arbitrary concept of skill levels, why not just show the full thingamajig?

[Nysan]

Selveem, didn't say you shouldn't teach. Was trying to point out the requirements for teaching. Gilain has taught expert+ trades with just 1 and 1 in Teacher/Scholar. 2/2 are only really necessary for 30+ level skills, like brew/scribe and high level spells. Was trying to save you from dropping points into CHA you might not need to, depending on your teaching plans. By all means, feel free to teach or level whatever you want. I would never stand in the way of potential PC teachers.

My stat comment was perspective based. No one needs 20 in a stat to do anything. No one needs focus feats to do anything. But maybe mixing of stats and no focus feats lead to more failures. As I said, its a guess. I don't know for sure. It is basically brainstorming what could be causing your character to fail more than the next one.

I am sorry if I am being misunderstood in my posts, maybe I need more sleep so I can type clearer...

[Selveem]

Like I said, I didn't take offense.

But, even if I just wanted to teach these skills, you MUST have 12 Int, Wis, and Cha to teach. So, either way, I'd need to pump 4 points into Cha just to utilize the teach skill. If I'm going to do all that and make my character lacking all other useful stats to survive as a Priest, I might as well spend the feat points as well and make him a valid teacher, no?

These are how I look at things.

[Athon]

I can't give exact numbers, but it's been 100 days since the new system came out (July 23rd) and I haven't seen an increase. You can call me a twink all you want, but I've been diligent in starting new crafts (within a half day or so) when one finishes.

Let's assume I got a skillup today. That means I still have 3 skillups left before I hit GM. Even if the time frame between skillups did not increase, that's 300 days until I hit GM. If we factor in an exponential increase in time between skillups, it's probably closer to 400 or 500 days to go from expert 2 to GM.

In the previous system, it took far more input time (mining, smelting, and construct armour 100s of times). It would take hours of tedious grinding, but I was able to get skillups in the expert ranges within a month of grinding. We're now looking at 3 times or more longer in this current system.

[Athon]

I just received a skillup to master last night in armoursmithing.

However, it occurred while a craft was still in progress, so I'm thinking the skillup time has diminished. We shall see.

[Brar]

I had all my skill up with the new system during craft, once you log back it makes the checks for the time passed I think and hence improve your skill...

But it is only guesses.

[Selveem]

I guess it'll take a lot longer for me, since I keep failing for some retarded reason.

I'm still watching it though.

[Nysan]

Yes, any successful check can generate skill-ups, progress (X weeks further) or craft completion. Most will see skill-ups during the progress checks because you have more of them than completions, but both should be possible.

[Selveem]

Big part of the problem is I am getting a high failure rate in comparison to progressive rate, then.

You have made no progress on your a banded mail coat of plates in the past few days.

I'm going to go through my logs and tally up all the messages cause I think I'm seeing far too much failure.

[Selveem]

Alright, with exception of the past 10 days (which for some reason did not log??), here is the summary of messages I received:

(2)You have not spent long enough on a banded mail coat of plates to make any progress.

(6)You spend some time on a banded mail coat of plates, making some small amount of progress.

(6)You feel you are about 1 week closer to completing a banded mail coat of plates!

(1)You feel you are about 2 weeks closer to completing a banded mail coat of plates!

(4)Your project is complete and a banded mail coat of plates is ready!

(4)You feel you have made some progress on a banded mail coat of plates, but not as much as you would have liked.

(5)You have made no progress on your a banded mail coat of plates in the past few days.

(2)You have made no progress on your a banded mail coat of plates this week.

(8)You made some mistakes on a banded mail coat of plates in the past few days, and will need some more raw materials to clean up your mess and continue the project.

Thus, 2 Neutral responses, 17 Good responses, 19 Bad responses.

To me the percentage of failure (especially critical failure, which tops the list with 8 responses) is way too high. It's about a 53% chance you'll fail in some sort of way and over a 22% chance that you're going to have to pay more in 'fees' and materials.

[Nysan]

Funny that most of the good and neutral ones are merely caused by not being logged out long enough for the timer to tick. Far as the 'bad' responses go, most look about right. The 4, 5, and 2 'bad' echoes are balanced, in my opinion. A nice even spread compared to good/neutral echoes on skill-max items.

The critical failure message (pay money/materials) does look out of balance. None of my testing has shown those numbers. Far as I can tell, I don't see anyone else receiving that high of critical failure rate either. Am I right? Anyone else getting these high critical failure rates?

If it is just your character, it is hard to say what is going on without tossing your character under a microscope (not within my power). Not much I can do for you there. Sorry,

[Selveem]

I'm kinda doubting my character is in any way bugged. I think this is most likely what others are seeing, just that they don't bother to count all this crap up. Unless it's an issue with stats and I'm getting some ridiculous penalty that I shouldn't be.

[Nysan]

I'm kinda doubting my character is in any way bugged. I think this is most likely what others are seeing, just that they don't bother to count all this crap up. Unless it's an issue with stats and I'm getting some ridiculous penalty that I shouldn't be.

That is what I am curious about. I know I haven't seen those numbers in past testport testing, not the same I know. So, I was curious if anyone else felt they had high critical failure rates. It could merely be a mix of bad stats, feats, luck, ect with your character, but if it is more than just you then we have bigger problems to look at. Not saying your character's misfortunes are not worth addressing, never that. I want to know if it is just you or the system that is the problem.

[Eltsac]

Well I guess it also depends on what you chose to craft.

I tried to craft all different pieces of armor I could make at my level (apprentice) with my crafter.
I had many more failures on some items than on others, so I guessed they were of higher difficulty.

I tend to craft items with decent failures to train.
I'm not sure how difficulty changes your learning rate, nor if it's better for training to try and fail a lot on high difficulty items rather to learn on decent difficulty items.

Anyway, I don't know what are the most difficult items at my level. Once I gain a level in my craft, I can see the new items I get and test them to see my failure chances with such items.
They might be closer to your stats than with my current craft sessions.

El

[Brar]

I noticed that I had far less failures when being buff than when not at lower craft level and the difference tends to disapear with skill being higher, so I guess stats have a big impact on lower level and less impact at higher level (which is how under a DnD system).

But this is only guess and as ong as we don't have the
FK formulas which only Mask gets we will never know for real

[Raona]

It looks like the materials used play a role in success for smelting, so it may be that the difference in crafting success is also tied to differences in the materials being used? (This observation made as a player, not a tester!)

[Selveem]

Even a -2 Mod for being an exotic material against the check still does not mesh with the results I've been getting. I've tried with iron and copper (the two things I had mined/smelted the most of since the change) and I've been equally unsuccessful with both. I just think the failure rate needs to be looked at and be far more forgiving. I think the cost needs to be dropped as well since you are providing the materials and not paying for them.

[Brar]

From experience, the quality of material used plays also a big part in crafting time, cost and difficulty.

Just remember that we are using a complete different system than in DnD, so it is very possible that stats plays a more important role here and is a multiplier instead of an addition.

That's a possibility considering the difference between my different crafters and their difference in Intelligence.

[Nysan]

Materials does have an impact on success rates, for both smelting and smithing. Mithril, for example, fails more often than copper or lead. Metal types also impact the related costs for crafting.

That said, I am still not certain if there is a problem with the system overall or something related to Selveem's character. His success/failure rates do not match anything I can come up with.