Combat changes

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Alitar
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Alitar » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:51 am

Rescue:
Seems to only involve the person rescuing as far as losing a round is concerned. Working as intended and back to fluid with autoassist. The thing I did notice was that after a rescue, it seems like the VT isn't updating who the target under attack is. It just shows both group members engaged with neither targeted, but it seems to be a display issue only. Not of major importance.
I think Rescue is still having issues. After successfully rescuing it takes quite awhile to perform a rescue again.

edit** disregard... not sure what gave me this impression. I'll update again if I figure out what I was doing wrong.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Alitar » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 pm

Seems that casters aren't beginning their chanting at the right time. It seems that they begin chanting at the beginning of "their" round, then cast. Rather than chanting at the beginning of "the" round. The difference is that they aren't recieving damage to make concentration checks against before they cast apart from the check against the AoO. However, I imagine even if they begin casting at the beginning of the round this problem will still be present if they have the initiative.

edit** wrong their*
Last edited by Alitar on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Tarven » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:47 pm

Alitar wrote:Seems that casters aren't beginning their chanting at the right time. It seems that they begin chanting at the beginning of "they're" round, then cast. Rather than chanting at the beginning of "the" round. The difference is that they aren't recieving damage to make concentration checks against before they cast apart from the check against the AoO. However, I imagine even if they begin casting at the beginning of the round this problem will still be present if they have the initiative.
Actually, it is working correctly.

Casting most spells is a standard action, which occurs on the character's (PC or NPC) initiative phase. As a standard action, there is no delay between the time of starting the spell, and ending it. Be thankful we get an AoO against NPC casters. In tabletop, they could cast defensively (as PCs can) to avoid the AoO entirely.

I have suggested to Mask (though perhaps I should put it in the Game Suggestions forums) to allow for readying an action, as per SRD rules. However, in tabletop, we would not get a chance to disrupt a caster unless you did such, and readying an action would mean we only get a single attack at BaB, and not our full round attack.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specia ... .htm#ready

*edit: Changed 'you' to 'we'. I realized the 'you' could be taken as a bit aggressive. Sorry if it came across that way, wasn't intended.
Last edited by Tarven on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Alitar » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:11 pm

I must remember casting wrong then. It's been awhile.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Tarven » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:42 pm

Here, this might help. =)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/action ... CastaSpell
Casting Time wrote: Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. A spell cast in this manner immediately takes effect.
I don't remember where I got this. It might have been a DnD fiction, but it's always sort of hung around in the back of my mind. Notice, preparing spells (the current nomenclature) used to be memorizing spells;

So, here's how I remember it being explained. Arcane spells are long and complicated forumlae, typically. That's why wizards require spell books. When a wizard prepares a spell, they are essentially 'casting' the spell, except for a few missing 'ingredients' to the formula. IE the words that are 'chanted' or intoned when actually releasing the spell. The act of preparing spells draws upon the energy reserves of the caster, which is why they require a certain amount of rest before doing so. This is also why wizards gain bonus spells for a high intellect. They're capable making more efficient formulae, thus drawing on the personal reserves of the wizard. Similarly, as a wizard increases in level, they increase in capability to draw on arcane energies. Able to store more within themselves (similar to how warriors gain hit points. They're able to take more physical punishment).

This is also why scrolls and potions require the casting of a spell. The spell is stored either in material components for a potion (eye of newt, stare of a basilisk, sound of a harpy's voice, etc), or in arcane writings that contain the energy of the spell, which are released from the parchment when key words from the formula are spoken.

Bards and Sorcerers don't prepare spells, because they use sheer force of will (IE Charisma) to form the arcane energies. They don't use formula. They instinctively know how to form the arcane energy into the effect they desire. The more Charisma, presence of personality, they have, the more spells they can cast.

I imagine I could interpret this into divine format, as well, but it probably isn't necessary. <.<
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Selveem » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:50 am

Alright, so now that I've actually fought someone and can see some of how the combat system has changed in PVP, I've got a nit to pick:

Brawling no longer gives your opponent an attack of opportunity, even when you lack improved brawling.
<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<4%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious's punch viciously pulverizes your left arm.
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.

<3%hp 0m 0%mv>
You weave out of the way of Casious's punch.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Selveem » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:07 am

Also, I noticed that picking up your weapon is not creating an attack of opportunity:
<3%hp 0m 5%mv>
Casious wields a quartz-encrusted golden steel heavy mace in his right hand.

<3%hp 0m 5%mv> disarm
You prepare to disarm ...

<3%hp 0m 5%mv>
Casious attacks as you open your guard attempting to disarm!
You evade Casious's crushing attack.
You disarm Casious!

<3%hp 0m 2%mv>
Casious gets a quartz-encrusted golden steel heavy mace.

<3%hp 0m 2%mv>
You weave out of the way of Casious's punch.

<3%hp 0m 2%mv>
Casious sidesteps your piercing attack.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Althasizor » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:30 am

A tall ugly male human attacks as you close within his weapon's reach!
You duck under A tall ugly male human's slashing attack.
You skillfully land a blow on A tall ugly male human's abdomen.
A tall ugly male human is slightly scratched.
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash deftly shreds your abdomen.
A tall ugly male human's slash powerfully slashes your chest.
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash deftly shreds your left arm.
A tall ugly male human attacks as you close within his weapon's reach!
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash violently shreds your left leg.
You punch A tall ugly male human's chest solidly, but don't manage to get your full weight behind it.
A tall ugly male human is slightly scratched.
A tall ugly male human DISARMS you!
A tall ugly male human attacks as you close within his weapon's reach!
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash deftly shreds your chest.
Your punch powerfully beats A tall ugly male human's right arm.
A tall ugly male human has a few small cuts.
You prepare to get longs...
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash shreds your chest.
A tall ugly male human's slash tears open your left arm.
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash shreds your chest.
You get a large gleaming longsword.
A tall ugly male human attacks as you open your guard attempting to get!
With a sickening sound A tall ugly male human's slash shreds your chest.
It worked fine for me Selveem, what are some of the variables for your test? But for the casting 'instantly' without metamagic feats,
That, and it appears that if you cast at the end of the round and have initiative, your spell is instantaneous without any metamagic feats.
it doesn't matter when the spell is typed, at the beginning or end of round #1. If they get initiative for round #2, they use that round of combat to cast their spell. It's supposed to function that way. Hope that helps!
What are you talking about? What, that guy?
That was like that when I got here.
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Selveem » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:41 am

At the time I was dueling a Priest whom I disarmed. He was using defensive casting, but that shouldn't have any affect on whether or not I am able to get attacks of opportunity vs him without a weapon while I was armed.

The second portion was edited out of my post due to it being inaccurate (what I see vs what my opponent saw in echoes).
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Trillarel » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:16 am

Does Quicken Spell work?
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Theolund » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:45 pm

If he has improved brawling it'd affect attacks of oppurtunity. But if he was a caster I doubt it to be the case! Unless he's a super monk!
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Selveem » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:55 pm

theolund wrote:If he has improved brawling it'd affect attacks of oppurtunity. But if he was a caster I doubt it to be the case! Unless he's a super monk!
In my previous post I said that he does not have improved brawling (unless he overlooked it). But, even if he had improved brawling, the act of retrieving your weapon from the ground within striking range of your opponent provokes an attack of opportunity which I was not getting.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
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Re: Combat changes

Post by Selveem » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Confirmed: Casious did not have improved brawling during the spar.

More info:
Casious was in killmode stun.
Casious was casting defensively.
Casious had defensive (combat) mode on.

Hopefully this helps to replicate.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
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