Number of minions based on charisma

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Vaemar
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Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Vaemar » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:46 am

It is a bit that I was thinking of proposing this, but, after playing a while with my drow I think that the number of available minions, i.e. two, is really too low for certain characters. In particular since for certain races and classes minions and followers are either necessary or highly advisable.

For example, in the case of the drow, they usually have many slaves, but practically if you have got a mount you can have just one. And if you are a wizard with a mount and familiar no slaves for you at all! What pains me, though, are the possibilities for rp that are lost. :(

I don't think it is something limited for the drow, though, despite surface races have not usually slaves, I suppose that if one is into pets, like say, rangers or druids, the limit is still too strict.

But on the other hand I don't think that simply proposing to raise the limit would be a good alternative.

In my humble opinion the best solution would be to have something along the lines of languages, i.e. to link the limit to a stat on the score sheet. In this case charisma, since also in first edition AD&d was the ability that determined how many followers one could have.

In my opinion this solution would be win-win:
-Charisma gets some numbers in the score sheet and becomes mechanically useful for every character not just for bards and, a handful skills, or checks in quests (which can often be bypassed with potions and the likes, as far as I know).
-People get the possibility to have better rp options with minions, mounts, pets, etc. but some balance is kept, so that we won't see everybody wandering with a horde of creatures.
-It is consistent, since it is only logical that a more charismatic character would have a better leadership capability and thus will be able to sway over more underlings than a character who is less charismatic.

Now feel free to throw at me tomatoes. :P

P.S.
I've got on a +2 light mail, +4 against missile-tomatoes, just for the record.

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Briek » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:47 am

No tomatoes from me.

I wonder, this idea opens the possibility up of having "cohorts" in the game?

Naturally as you say, charismatic PCs do attract followers. (I think there is even a feat for this?)

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Terageld » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Bards have charisma equal to the "hands-on" exibit of the science museum. They're all gonna have armies of NPCs by the end of the week.
I do support a feat of uber-people/animal management open to rangers/druids, charismatic people, and evil enslaving races. It adds an extra pet slot. You can train it three times, up to five pets.
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Eechi » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:35 pm

I really like this idea. It does give charisma a bit of a boost for different builds characters can make and of course adds a large amount of RP. Some characters may even create personalities and background stories for their followers and create a real Mass Effect feel.

On the other hand I agree that if it's based on charisma and a bard or paladin are sporting a 20 it could get out of hand. If coded properly though the IMMs could decide on a cap and easily keep that from happening.

I think it's also worth mentioning that I've seen some players with hoards of undead following them from the use of a spell and that doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Yemin » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:58 pm

Here you go:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Leadership

Have the hordes of undead been limited to outside cities or we talking necromancers want to show some muscle? The game does a good job of limiting spam when it comes to group through the whole *is followed by a large group* thing

I've never played a tabletop game where the DM allowed this feat btw. Its generally considered a waste of playtime in the groups I've been with so far but on a mud I could see its uses if the players were willing to go through the hassle of ordering each single one in different situations or setting up an alias for group commands.

Just don't get mad when they get wailed/chained/Meteored to death for the most part, not intentionally mind you... but i've seen some nutty stuff happen to followers.
Conflict I think is the only issue I can see here and in light of that I guess my questions are:

How many people would realistically use this feature? Even on a mud just having one follower I've seen slow down gameplay and roleplay significantly.

If you have a group of 3 - 4 Mobiles following you. Each with their own story, could you achieve the same or similar roleplay experience by simply fitting the experiences your main PC had with them into present roleplay.

I've never applied for a special NPC but frequently I work in things that've happened to my PCs off screen as it were into conversations and such. That drat boy chimney sweep's been lazy again. Dumped a wod of soot on the hem of my robes... bla bla bla.

Would anyone mind posting a short log of some roleplay with one of their specially applied for NPCs? In a year and some of play I've never seen them used for more than 15 minutes, then their dismissed but from the mood here I think thats been down to me not being around at the right times.

I think thats all I got so far. Though just to throw this out there. I think a good use of the charisma skill if its not being used this way already is to significantly effect the request / demand command's success. That command could then be set up to autofail on most shopkeepers to stop people freely gaining items that ought be sold but to the wondering goblin who could be cowed, or the Priests of a temple, they could be begged / persuaded to part with a couple of thematically appropriate / good looking shields / weapons / potions.

By the way... tomatoes are delicious. You'd be a monster to throw them away like that
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Vaemar » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:43 pm

First and foremost, thanks to all of you for your answers and for the interest!

I had thought to the feat as an addendum to the proposal, if it was accepted, in the same fashion Linguist is for languages.

Leadership, requirement to train it charisma 16, trainable up to three times and grants an additional minion slot.

I am obviously not in favour of having bards with whole armies, although this largely depends from how one codes the number of pets linked to charisma. If charisma 14 is one extra minion and charisma 18 two extra minions, that would be fine, in my humble opinion.
Alternatively one can give only one minion for charisma 10 or less and then add one for each +1 in the score sheet, i.e. charisma 20 six pets, in the same fashion as a character with 10 intelligence speaks only one language.

But in general I don't see anything wrong in giving a tangible advantage to those who decide to invest many points in charisma instead than in another stat. After all if you have got charisma 20, it means that you haven't put those 10 points elsewhere.

Also, I've checked most editions of D&d, and it's just the 3rd edition that ditched the number of henchmen/hirelings/minions being linked to charisma. In first edition D&d, D&d red box, AD&d first and second edition it was in all charisma tables.

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Harroghty » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:59 am

What would be the purpose or use of these henchmen?
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Katheryn » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:53 am

Yemin wrote:By the way... tomatoes are delicious. You'd be a monster to throw them away like that
Heathen. (I'm kidding. But really, tomatoes are gross.)
Harroghty wrote:What would be the purpose or use of these henchmen?
I can definitely see a character like Katheryn benefiting from this. Not for henchmen (humanoids, slaves, etc.), but because she'd probably pick up whatever cute animal she can find and drop it off at the Orphanage for the children. She has a sheep and a horse. Horse, like any, gets properly stabled. Sheep is strictly for RP purposes, but important enough that I once entertained killing off the horse to get a better one since the change in horses happened.

But I also understand where I see RP opportunity *and I think a majority of those here commenting do as well*, there are those who would seek to benefit from having many pets at once for grinding and what have you and don't care that pets die.
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Briek » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:06 am

I think we'd want to avoid any possibility of someone gaining enough minions that they could solo quests that are designed to be for groups.

Could the leadership feat be brought into the game to grant one additional minion slot?

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Gwain » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:07 pm

How about we change the code to allow you to have two mounts and one pet slot? It seems practical.
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Vaemar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:33 pm

Harroghty wrote:What would be the purpose or use of these henchmen?
It depends, for me 50% for usefulness, like mounts, bodyguards or crafters, 50% for rp opportunities, like pets, slaves for entertainment like goblins, slaves for sacrifices, minions like the undead claw to disgust others, etc.

In general there is so much nice stuff, minionwise, in game that it is a pity to have a limit so low. There are slaves of the coolest races, starting from goblins and quaggoths, just to name two of them, there is a bunch of cool pets, small shriekers and cave crickets just to make other two examples, and nice mounts as well, spiders, slugs, bats, lizards, yeah, some nice horses too, as well as some horse-like creature such as the donkey, which is not a mount but is still cool nonetheless.

In any case, I had seen, and clearly, the potential for abuse, so I have proposed to link it to charisma to have balancing. But as much as there is potential for abuse there is potential for good rp opportunities, in my humble opinion.

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Harroghty » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:19 pm

"A man may die yet still endure if his work enters the greater work, for time is carried upon a current of forgotten deeds, and events of great moment are but the culmination of a single carefully placed thought." - Chime of Eons

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Vaemar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Wow! This is great! O_O

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by dolifer » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:07 am

That's awesome! :D

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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Hrosskell » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 am

Just out of curiosity, is this price only for creatures that currently exist in shops around the Realms?
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Re: Number of minions based on charisma

Post by Harroghty » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:00 am

Yes, and only those which your PC could reasonably acquire.
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