Better Roleplaying

User avatar
Harroghty
Staff
Staff
Posts: 9655
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:38 pm

Better Roleplaying

Post by Harroghty » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:52 pm

If we are going to be a roleplaying game then we all benefit from our collective input on how to make our gaming better. Anyone should feel free to post tidbits here.

The most common grammatical errors which I see in Forgotten Kingdoms are failing to differentiate between homophonous words. For example:
  • your (determining possession) and you're (contraction of you are)

    their (determining possession) and there (adverb) and they're (contraction of they are)
I mention it here because I want to highlight that in a text based game people, including (and especially) new players, judge you upon how you write. Simple grammatical errors can turn off new players who are interested in a serious, text-based roleplaying experience. Glaring grammatical errors can disrupt the ability of others to enjoy the good stuff that you're writing. I get it: some people play from mobile devices and some people are using talk-to-type. I can tell you that more people than those are making these simple errors.
"A man may die yet still endure if his work enters the greater work, for time is carried upon a current of forgotten deeds, and events of great moment are but the culmination of a single carefully placed thought." - Chime of Eons
User avatar
Alitar
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:40 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Alitar » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:30 pm

Punctuation and capitalization. Without these, I know of many players who will just excuse themselves and find someone else to RP with.

Also smote lots.
"The noir hero is a knight in blood caked armour. He's dirty and he does his best to deny the fact that he's a hero the whole time."
~Frank Miller
User avatar
Gwain
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 2353
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Waterdeep
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Gwain » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:16 pm

I'm not the best with grammar and spelling myself, I tend to type quickly or in a stream of conscience. But I can try to take a bit more time to ensure a more coherent wordplay.
Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right.

Spelling is not necessarily correct :)
User avatar
Andreas
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:55 am
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Andreas » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:29 pm

Good English spelling, capitalization and punctuation make for good RP for me. I find myself gritting my teeth when I encounter people who can't spell, use capitalization or punctuation.

I don't think people should be required to smote a lot. Yes, smote can convey a broader sense of how your character is behaving, but we also have a huge list of social commands that can also express how your character behaves. I tend to be a rapid fire role player with quick socials and quick, short smotes and says to express my role play.

Role play in the style that suits you best, but please use good English while doing so!
Helm keep thee.
Althasizor
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 6:05 am
Location: Ba Sing Se
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Althasizor » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:33 pm

Alright, I'll toss in something new here(While agreeing with everything said on grammar and spelling)!

I think one of the biggest problems I've seen is a disregard for in-character perspective in favour of objective facts laid out in FR source material. A great example of what I mean are the Deep Gnomes. An isolationist race that even races in the Underdark know very little about, highly suspicious and untrusting of others, and viewed the same as drow and duergar by those on the surface.

In FK though, the impression you might get of the deep gnomes is of a poor, oppressed race that just wants acceptance, which 90% of all surface-dwelling adventurers are more than happy to give them, citing the objective fact that deep gnomes are -not- actually evil, without ever being given a reason to think that.

Which kind of blurs the line into another frequent issue, a tendency to not disconnect modern senses of morality from in-game characters. The word 'racist' should really never be applied in-game, for example.

These are both things that severely muddy the roleplay for all involved. "I am not racist" signalling from overly accepting adventurers is not the roleplay I expected or was looking for when, say, playing my orc.
Last edited by Althasizor on Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
What are you talking about? What, that guy?
That was like that when I got here.
Vaemar
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 663
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Vaemar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:31 am

A thing that drives me nuts is confusion between its and it's.

it's = it is
its = neuter equivalent of her or his

I know spelling is a convention, but as a second language user I tend to find it confusing to read English when I see them mixed up.
User avatar
Aishe
Sword Journeyman
Sword Journeyman
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:25 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Aishe » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:02 am

Heh, I've been trying to avoid posting here all day, but I have failed. So here goes:

I appreciate the fact that we should all make an effort to better our roleplay experience by keeping an eye on our grammar and punctuation and spelling and whatnot, to help immersion, but at the same time, I don't think those who struggle with such things on a consistent basis should feel pressured to re-read every word they've typed, or to keep to themselves. There will inevitably be players who have the odd glitch in spelling, capitalization and such. I've personally taken to just incorporating such things into the roleplay itself. It adds a flavor to the mix, a bit of an accent in some cases, and for those with consistent spelling/punctuation issues has just become part of how I see the character. Maybe they talk fast all the time, or have picked up a dialect my character is unfamiliar with. It just becomes something that you come to expect and interpret.
Obstacles are those dreadful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal.
Beskytter
Sword Master
Sword Master
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Beskytter » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:14 am

I would say a depth of character is an important aspect to role-playing. I agree with the above dealings with grammar and English, though I typically will ignore simple mistakes or even a common mistake because I can't know who is typing English as a second or third language. (Plus, I make typing mistakes here and there too.)

My biggest thing about role-play is a depth of character and I don't just mean having had your character run all the quests or own all the things, I mean backstory and personality. It's too easy to be the most Kelemvorite cleric on the grid, and it's too easy to be the drunkest Tymoran in play... it's harder to be a Kelemvorite cleric who came to faith because they've been changed by the ravages of war and in their most horrific moment learned what it means to follow him. Explore the psychology of a character, explore how experiences will change your mentality and even alignment. That's where real role-play comes in.

We have a good community of characters here on FK, but I can see where some characters don't really allow themselves to get into the depths of what makes them, them, in order to draw new players into the story. Don't just look at this game as casual fun, look at it like reading an on going online novel series with each new character and rp another chapter added.
I'm a raptor, doin' what I can, gonna eat everything till he appearance of man. Yo yo see me, I'm living below the soil. I'll be back, but I'm comin' as oil.
Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Yemin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:54 am

I think we have to be careful not to create an environment of elitism among the player base where rp is concerned. I remember on my first MUD where RP was somewhat inforced one of the reasons I ended up leaving there and coming here was because the supposed good rpers would secret themselvs away and be generally derisive to others.

Now, we're a long long way from that on FK in my experience but I thought it was worth mentioning.

At the same time though, I don't expect people who have ticks against what they see as poor roleplay to just get along with it and ignore it of course so allow me to contribute to the suggestions.

I think what would improve the calibur of roleplay for me would be if people didn't ignore the reasonable response from NPCs just because they are not coded to give one.

This is clearer in some situations more than others but to give a reasonably recent example. Having one of the new cool looking demon communication amulets sitting on your shoulder or floating around your head when walking around a heavily populated area in a city known to outright kill tieflings and not give their stuff back. Or at the very least kick them out would better the environment for me. I've seen this happen several times and it usually just makes me shake my head and tsk, scenes from Devil may cry 3 playing through my head.

As a note, I would like to see some coded consequences to some actions be implemented when items like these are introduced into the game but thats just my violent streak talking and it certainly isn't possible to code a response to every item / cenario.

Thanks for straining your eyes to read this ha! you should use a screen reader!
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!
User avatar
Benorf
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:06 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Benorf » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:53 pm

These always bother me enough to shock me out of roleplaying, there are a few things I've noticed: people often confuse things with Lord of the Rings.

In Forgotten Realms:

Halflings do not have hairy feet. There is nothing to indicate this, nor is it even referenced that they often go barefoot.

Mithral is the spelling in D&D, not Mithril, Mythril, Mithryl, etc...

Female dwarves do not have beards. There are no pictures in any source books with a female dwarf having a beard.

---

Can anyone think of some common assumptions that are incorrect?
Benorf the Stout, Axe of Torm
Formyndare Mastare, Horn Guard of Yondalla
Thaien Ellbrecht, Planar Interviewer
Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Yemin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:23 pm

Female dwarves are referenced as having beards in the almighty and definitely for sure accurate R.A Salvatore's Legend of drizzt.
*sarcasm

Though I think most people have probably read FR novels more so than they have read source books on 2e and 3.5 This might be something to address suggestions for help files linked to the race help files since I'm also sure a sizeable number of players have never played dnd or read anything on FR and come into this game.... ahem, blind.
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!
User avatar
Harroghty
Staff
Staff
Posts: 9655
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:38 pm

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Harroghty » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:32 pm

Off hand, I know that there is a bearded "dwarfette" depicted in Warriors and Priests of the Realms. The Realms are anything but consistent, especially in graphics. There is some wiggle room built in, too, if you take Ed's word on it.

Personally, I would be glad to see someone RP deeply, and I could get over the places in which hair grows. I do feel that many races and classes etc are not fully understood. Aramil, among others, is a great example of being a spokesman for a feature; the new and pending elven areas do much to clarify that RP.
"A man may die yet still endure if his work enters the greater work, for time is carried upon a current of forgotten deeds, and events of great moment are but the culmination of a single carefully placed thought." - Chime of Eons
User avatar
Anguin
Sword Master
Sword Master
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:03 am
Location: The Misty Forest
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Anguin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:45 pm

This is just my thought. I tend to use lots of short smotes - 'Anguin rubs his chin with one grimy hand. "Huh. I sure am hungry."'

But, sometimes it seems like people use nothing but long smotes - smotes that cover three lines on my screen. Sometimes their smotes are cut off by being too long. Yes, there's a need for detailed smotes. But, if that's all a person does I think it bogs down the rp while I wait for a response. I can only check my score and skills and spells so any times before I lose interest.
Beskytter
Sword Master
Sword Master
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Beskytter » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:10 pm

I'll pipe in on the thing about smotes and emotes being too long in some situations...

This can be very true, and it's something I've had to relearn not to do after returning from MUSHing for so long. For the most part, MUDs are designed to be line by line action. Smotes are great for having actions happen while talking and emotes are great for just acting... get into the habit of using these more and more along with the coded expressions.

Try to keep it to one line, maybe two. It gives others a chance to respond to one thing before the next comes. If you're new to the game, or just feel like taking a swing at practicing line-by-line styled RP... message me in game or PM me here. I'm more than happy to meet with people and go through it time and again until you get comfortable with how to smote/emote/say things. I encourage everyone to have the same mindset.

As an aside: Unless it's a completely missed part of the code, or reading it wouldn't make sense, we don't need second echoes of a mistyped line. My example would be saying something to someone but forgetting to include the $ before their name, or mistyping it for whatever reason so the $ is a 4 or something different entirely. I think we can all agree that we know if it's meant for us or someone else. A second echo could cause confusion or break someone's immersion, which is ultimately what we're trying to avoid.
I'm a raptor, doin' what I can, gonna eat everything till he appearance of man. Yo yo see me, I'm living below the soil. I'll be back, but I'm comin' as oil.
User avatar
Nearraba
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:41 pm
Location: The High Forest

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Nearraba » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:55 pm

I'll echo to agree with the capitalization and punctuation.

As for the smotes, I believe that's personal preference. I'm guilty of being long winded on some characters, especially when speaking with more than one person at a time. I find it thoroughly enjoyable the more descriptive you are in what you're doing. It allows for a better imagery in mind. Although, in large groups, I tend not to be so detailed as so much else is going on.

When I first started playing, I'm sure I was a nightmare, only using says & taking little or no time, but as I've spent more time among everyone, I've learned to be patient and really get into character.
Autumn is a second spring where every leaf has its turn to be a flower.
- Albert Camus
User avatar
Alitar
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:40 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Alitar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:16 pm

Harroghty wrote:Off hand, I know that there is a bearded "dwarfette" depicted in Warriors and Priests of the Realms. The Realms are anything but consistent, especially in graphics. There is some wiggle room built in, too, if you take Ed's word on it.

Personally, I would be glad to see someone RP deeply, and I could get over the places in which hair grows. I do feel that many races and classes etc are not fully understood. Aramil, among others, is a great example of being a spokesman for a feature; the new and pending elven areas do much to clarify that RP.
Reminds me of the ever controversial topic on the difference between elves and pointy-eared humans. That is a topic that gets elitist very quickly and yet can go a long way towards showing a very challenging roleplay option that has been approached many times both well and not so. Better I think not to really get heavy on it.
I will however offer another commendation for Aramil for being a sterling example of what I believe is an amazingly well done Elven character; Aramil's mannerisms and speech and tone all speak to how alien an elven mind is from a human one. I love it.
Kudos.
"The noir hero is a knight in blood caked armour. He's dirty and he does his best to deny the fact that he's a hero the whole time."
~Frank Miller
Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Yemin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:45 pm

It takes something rl I think to understand and play a different race well. I can say without shame I have never played other races other than human or half elf table side because I simply can't and really don't understand other races enough. Even my elf here is pretty much what I think of as a really long lived pointy eared English nobleman from the renaissance plus a mindset that kind of sort of agrees with a Mix of Iraven tesher from Last Mythal and Corellon Larethian from Evermeet - Island of elves.

Even after reading those two sources, he probably still comes off as a pointy eared human with my point being similar to what I had on the thread discussing charisma as a stat. Some players can emulate what their going for extremely well when they make a character stat wise. Others not so much and it can apply to class and race as well. As logn as we avoid elitism, I tend not to mind too grately from the most stereotypical to somewhat watered down or unorthadox.

I still hold to the theory that Aramil is an elf irl. I would personally say that Aramil is more elf than the elves are in Evermeet, since upon reading that book a few days ago there were a lot of pointy eared humans in the book.

Looking at you Zaor Moonflower walks into a bar with friends and shows off to guard captain to get hired as a guard. Sounds like something Han solo would do.
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!
Areia
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Areia » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:34 pm

On the topic of smote length: I tend to be one of those long-winded people, myself, who can make a reply take three or more lines. But this is very much dependant on the PC I'm playing at the time and what's going on around it. For instance, Areia tends to be very wordy in her speech, but another of my alts is most often more straight-to-the-point. Like Nearraba, I find it very enjoyable not just to know what a PC is saying, but also how it's saying it, what it is doing while it is speaking, and the like. However, when I'm in large and busy gatherings, or in very dangerous areas where mobs can pop up and eat you at any moment, I usually stick to SAYs and socials. That is all to say, I personally think it depends upon the individual player's preferences, the PC's unique mannerisms, and the situation at hand.

I'd also like to agree with Althasizor and others, regarding things like racial tolerance and so forth in FK. I've seen dwarven PCs on FK hanging around orcs and halforcs like they're best buds before, and that sort of thing kind of erks me. Players of halforc PCs who know Areia ICly will note she's not overly fond of them to say the least, and that's because, well, they're part orc. Neither FR nor the RL part of history on which it is very loosely based has much concept of equality between races, sexes, etc. (Have a look at how Kelemvor treated Midnight when they first met, if you happen to own the books). However, once or twice a PC of mine has been called out on using out-of-character knowledge or the like when, in fact, the PC had the IC background for holding such belief or what have you. So while we can make generalizations about what races hate what races, what classes are familiar with what knowledge, it's important to remember that there are instances where the PC might have sufficient reason to do what it's doing.

Something I've seen a few players doing, and something I've attempted on some of my alts with I feel enjoyable results, is actually showing us a PC's accent. Always, always try to keep good English in the actions in a smote, but I love reading not perfect English in a character's speech patterns. NOTE: This does not mean I think it's okay to eschew the use of punctuation, capitalization, etc. because you're lazy and don't think it's important (I'm one of those who will absolutely avoid characters whose players just don't want to be bothered to learn to write so that others can understand what's being presented), or that I would advocate a player's use of nonsense in a PC's speech just to be different. But there is a handful of PCs for whom this, in my opinion, adds so much depth to the PC and really helps me get a handle on what the PC is like. I'd encourage people with good IC reasons to try it out.
Nascentes morimur, finisque ab origine pendet.
Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Yemin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:21 am

I've come across characters that are fantastic roleplayers whilst keeping their smotes to max 4 words including their name and mostly sticking to says.

I enjoy it when people put their speech pattern in their description since when they use say that helps me know what they sound like. And on the topic of using say itself, when people tend to use it more than not I usually default to that people are speaking in a cryptic but normal tone of voice or that their playing a character who isn't very expressive in tone or face until they have a reason to.

Decorative smotes of what is going on with hands, or hair or shifting off feet cos their tired of standing in one spot is nice but i could take or leave it.
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!
User avatar
Algon
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:44 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: Better Roleplaying

Post by Algon » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:24 am

These kind of things are what make FK a special place. If everyone Roleplayed the same, it would be boring. I tend to enjoy Rping with people who are good at the long emotes, this is after all, basically like reading a book. Who wants to read a book where the characters just say...Yes, no, thank you?

And as far as grammar and spelling...those who know me know that I am horrible with typos, but it comes with a text game. As long as its not like every other word, I am usually pretty understanding.
Counting bodies like sheep...to the rhythm of the war drums. ~~~ Maynard
Post Reply