Speak with the Dead

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Theillik

Speak with the Dead

Post by Theillik » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:29 am

My character Goz is supposed to be a spirit shaman, and he's supposed to be able to converse with spirits. He uses the spell "speak with dead" but it doesn't really do anything. I am wondering if it were possible to give some different powers to this spell.

I would suggest that when that spell be cast, the character knows who is dead, who is a spirit, who he can contact. If there could be a list of spirits or one the who list, indicate who is dead. And the character should be able to speak to the dead person without them speaking first.

Is this all possible? Any other suggestions?
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Post by Gwain » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:32 am

Speak with the dead gives you an ic way to communicate with the dead. It allows you to know who you are speakingto by name and allows you to single out a voice to commune with by the name you recieve from another. It is a really rp oriented spell I personally think is fine the way it is. However, it has lost some of it's awe since the ability to speak with someone you don't know is still floating around. I think that might be making it appear to have no effect. I could be wrong though.
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Post by Theillik » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:45 am

True. I was just hoping that a character could contact the dead..ask them questions, etc. If the character could know who is dead, then the spell would be more like speaking with the dead, instead of just knowing the names of the characters who contact you.
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Post by Gwain » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:59 am

Well usually in most cases it's the dead that contact you. Very rarely will one assult the dead with questions like do you need to be raised or can I offer myself as a raiser or did you die and does your body look like this? It could be done, but it might be unrealistic. Maybe a seperate spell like Know Death or Spirit pull instead? I see speak to dead as a one way street, you get to talk back , but you can't initiate the platter.
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Post by Glim » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:12 am

I can also see Theillik as speaking more of the consulting sages of the past for answers. Except the only ones he could feasably ask are the PCs that are dead. Anything else would need imm support, and would be similar to the spell that contact's ones deity (cant be bothered to look up the name) or a wish spell.

Also, this should prob go in the spells forum. Sorry to be such a forum nazi.
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Speak with the Dead

Post by Theillik » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:47 pm

Yes, what Glim suggested is what I was thinking. Really, it's for a more broad choice of rp. Right now, all Speak with Dead does is let you know who's talking to you, if they have greeted you. Or, like Gwain said, give you an IC reason to be able to talk back to the spirits.

Example, Goz, spirit shaman, would be contacting a spirit to ask about the after life, or the place of the dead, or someone's future, or..the weather, or asking a spirit who their killer was, where they died, can they speak to another spirit that is already dead. He wouldn't be bombarding them with "Do you need to be raised? Want me to raise you?"


At the very least: I think the only people who should be able to respond to spirits, is someone who has cast Speak with Dead. If the Speak with Dead spell cannot be expanded, could there be a block on everyone's ability to speak with the dead, except if they cast Speak with Dead?
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Post by Rhytania » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:45 am

I would like to see speak with dead turn towards a more IC route.

Part 1:
I stumble upon a corpse I cast Speak with dead and it will allow me to communicate directly with the ghost perhaps without the use of an amulet. I can speak with the ghost (PC) find out who he is and what happened and use the info to raise him. As it stands right now, the way it works I find a corpse and have to run around and find someone who recognizes him to give me a name so I can 'tell' him, which kind of defeats the purpose of the spell imo. It should only work when you are in the same room with a corpse.

Part 2:
Now if I am running around somewhere and a ghost contacts me I could receive an echo stating that the ghost of a big hairy male human(or a name if the PC has greeted me) is trying to contact you from beyond the grave...I use speak with dead and It will give me a link to be able to receive messages from the ghost but unable to send any until I have been able to get to the corpse. This will keep it truer to form with the handbook use of speak with dead, and create a bit of a use for Priests and Shamans. As it is now any joe blow can speak with a ghost through the use of an Amulet.

I broke the suggestion into 2 parts for people to comment on them individually but think that it would be best if both parts were implemented. This will also save Preists a lot of time if they are able to know without a shadow of a doubt that the corpse in front of them is the name they where given and wether or not that player is afk, linkdead, or logged off the mud.
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Post by Gwain » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:22 am

For the first idea, I was thinking....maybe coding a new feat called forensics, basically, it will allow you to determine what killed the corpse at your feat and how it was done (ie what weapon type and non magic or magical) and how it was slain (what broke and what was caved in or carved out) basically a way to dig in and see what happened and how or who commited it.

The second part, I've always accepted that communication to the dead was turbulent, but I welcome any changes that might make it work better with the speak to dead spell, also if they cannot be altered because of programing I can still work with what is there as best as possible. It's fun either way.
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Post by Kregor » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:37 am

My two cents:

At the point of casting Speak with Dead, the caster gets a view of limbo, identical to that that one would see when scrying someone in a normal room. So you would see anyone sitting around in the fugue...

Then, you would be able to tell to each of them, asking them if they are the spirit that departed the body you found, or if you know who you are looking for, you can say something like "Are you the spirit of joesuchandsuch?"

More ICly a feel of contacting the spirit world, and I think, doable somehow.
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Post by Dalvyn » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:05 pm

Doable, but there's a problem with the fact that the spell has a duration while it only gives you information once then I think: That means that you'd have a look at the Realm of the Dead only once, then you wouldn't be able to take another look there while the spell is still in effect.

Perhaps it might be better to add a new command, like "sensedead", that would make you take a quick look in the Realm of the Dead, and that would work only if you are affected with speak with dead. The command would be usable as often as the caster wants, as long as he's affected with speak with dead.
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Post by Kelemvor » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:35 pm

How about a spell which mimics clairvoyance, but with the realms of the dead as the only destination?

set the invismob created to be able to do few things other than look and require the caster to have speak with dead if they wish to converse.
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great ideas

Post by Theillik » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:00 am

Awesome ideas everyone!

I like what Kelemvor has just suggested.

Allowing a clairvoyance-like spell that glimpse the fugue, then making it only possible to converse with the dead if you have the spell Speak with Dead.

That would be great!
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Post by Ellian » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:39 pm

Kelemvor wrote:How about a spell which mimics clairvoyance, but with the realms of the dead as the only destination?

set the invismob created to be able to do few things other than look and require the caster to have speak with dead if they wish to converse.
Dalvyn wrote:Perhaps it might be better to add a new command, like "sensedead", that would make you take a quick look in the Realm of the Dead, and that would work only if you are affected with speak with dead. The command would be usable as often as the caster wants, as long as he's affected with speak with dead.
I think these two ideas have merit, but both will only work as long as the realms of the dead is one room. When the planned expansion for the realms (discussed here: http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... sc&start=0 and here: http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... ealms+dead) is implemented, how would these two methods work?

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Post by Gwain » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:27 pm

They could work by segregating a room for communing with spirits or setting up flags at certain points in the dead realm for contact, like gates and portals that thin the viel between this world and the next. Of course, it could also be possible to create a spell that seeks out that certain someone wherever they may tred in the realm of death.
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Post by Rhytania » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Hence the reason to tie it to the players corpse, It will contact the PC Ghost whereever he may be in the fugue. Or even better have the Speak With Dead(SWD) spell bring the players ghost from out of the fugue to the materiel plane. It could work that he his limited to the room the caster of SWD is in therefore tying him to the PC while the spell is in effect (I can see some possible extra RP opportunities for necros and shaman types?). Same rules apply as the ghosts now, they can hear and see everything, but they can only be heard and seen by people with SWD activated, however they can minimally interact with the environment through smotes, that all PC's wil be able to see. It will also create some RP with the dead and PC as they can haggle the terms for the raise if any, and the PC can still somewhat interact with his party until they can get to a location where he can be raised. If this comes into effect SWD should be able to target any ghost that the caster is in a room with a corpse in maybe have the possibilites of multiple ghosts in case half of the party bites the dust. Maybe a subcommand that will deactivate the spell so as when it is no longer needed it can be easily shut off.

Just a few thoughts...
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Post by Gwain » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:18 pm

Would that result in the spell domain changing from dead to dead, summon?
Currently the necromatic element of speak to dead is dead, so would that also make it part of the summonign domain?
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Post by Rhytania » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:24 pm

I dont think that it would go under the summoning domain as the ghosts' true plane is the material plane. Summoning brings creatures/spirits that reside on other planes into the prime.
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